Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-07-2012, 01:09   #151
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow
Foolisailor

What you are talking about is the reliance on gps based position fixing. Not electronic charts per day. As a practitioner of celestial techniques I know full well what you mean.

Again it's not the digital charts that are the issue it's the reliance on close accuracy gps fixes that's scary.

Dave
Yes, that is really the heart of it.
__________________

__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 01:29   #152
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
Someone asked what a stack of paper charts for a circumnavigation would look like. Could be a few or many. Depends how much navigation in random places is expected. My boat came with all the charts for a loop from North America thru the South Pacific and SE Asia. They were the B.S. photocopy charts from Bellingham. A stack about 15cm (6in) thick when swollen in the tropics. None current. I gave them away and use only electronic charts to do the same work. Carry a few small scale charts so in a calamity I can find a continent with a suitable tavern.

A couple of posters above said they rolled their charts. Does not insanity lie in that direction?
__________________

__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 02:27   #153
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
How do you keep track of your position if all the land suddenly disappears?

I mean, if we're going to make suppositions, why not make all of them?
As in "At world's end"????
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 06:23   #154
One of Those
 
Canibul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
Boat: Catalac 12M
Posts: 3,209
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

If all the land suddenly disappears, what difference does it make where you are on the water? Floating debris isn't on any of the charts.
__________________
Expat life in the Devil's Triangle:
http://2gringos.blogspot.com/
Canibul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 05:07   #155
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,941
Images: 1
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

A circumnavigator here in DK recently had an ad selling his paper charts "30 kilos of paper charts - 3000 Danish Kroner) - so an around the world paper trail generates 30 kilos.

Yes there are people of navigate exclusively with their chart plotters. What they don't realize is that the data in the chart plotters comes from the paper charts issued by the marine authorities. And the data (depth for instance) was generated up to a couple of hundred years ago by sailing in lines 100 meters apart and "casting the lead" So when the chart say you have 50 feet - you can't be sure. First if the number on the chart is exactly on the line where they cast the lead, that is the depth that was there 200 years ago - ever hear of "shifting sands"?

second - if the number is not on the line - then no one has ever measured the depth there. Could be a sandbar or rocks or or or.

I'm planning my summer sail right now - guess what? Plan from paper, use pilot book (paper) to check harbors etc. Discuss with crew what, if any, issues there are on the trip. Generate some waypoints if necessary.

Will I plot a route into my ray marine chart plotter? Probably not, since we will be doing mostly day sailing and the night stretches will be long - so we only need a bearing.

I love my chart plotter - but paper is good.

I think I've mentioned it before - but here in Denmark , it is mandatory that you have paper charts. Period.
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 05:16   #156
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Australia require you to carry paper charts regardless of electronics installed...

Do aircraft still carry a hard copy of mini charts? Im not sure.......
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 05:20   #157
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,941
Images: 1
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Well that is Denmark and now Australia that require paper - I'm willing to bet most other countries also do.........
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 05:23   #158
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Paper charts are the spare tyre of navigation, always there stored safe and able to get you home....Cheers Frank
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 06:00   #159
Registered User
 
Albro359's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Elyse is in Fiji
Boat: Amel Super Maramu 2000
Posts: 510
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Very pleased to see the latest replies....
ALWAYS carry paper charts...electronics are wonderful, but when they get full of water and the batteries are dead, and the engine won't start ......

And WHY would you throw away an alternate source of information ???
__________________
See you out there ....... Alan S.V. Elyse
now http://svelyse.weebly.com
older http://voyagesofDIVA.weebly.com
Albro359 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 06:27   #160
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,619
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Well that is Denmark and now Australia that require paper - I'm willing to bet most other countries also do.........
Mandatory safety equipment rules in Australia are a bit of a nightmare. There are different laws for each state which is particularly stupid.

One big problem is marine laws have an enormous lag behind technology.I was carring an EPIRB in Australia long before they were mandatory, but this proven life saving equipment was ignored by the legislation for many years.
Many people spent money buying different flares for different states. This money could have been much better spent on an EPIRB. There was even a requirement when I last bought safety equipment in Australia for a "v" sheet which I don't think anyone else in world has ever heard of or would understand the significance if I did display one.

In short, to use the legislation, at least in Australia, as an example of a well thought out list of equipment that should be carried is not valid IMHO.

Although I think even in Australia paper charts are only required in some states.

The UK has the best laws. They let the skipper decide what safety equipment should be carried. It's a novel idea to let an adult decide, rather than a politician, but I think the idea has merit.
__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 06:27   #161
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,941
Images: 1
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Just in case y'all didn't know - ya gotta have paper charts or you're not gonna be legal

[An] electronic chart display and information system (ECDIS) means a navigation information system which, with adequate back-up arrangements, can be accepted as complying with the up-to-date chart required by regulation V/20 of the 1974 SOLAS Convention, by displaying selected information from a system electronic navigational chart (SENC) with positional information from navigation sensors to assist the mariner in route planning and route monitoring, and by displaying additional navigation-related information if required."

Another class of navigational electronic chart systems exists, and is simply referred to as the electronic chart system (ECS). Such systems do not meet the SOLAS chart carriage requirements.

Hence, the use of ENCs in a tested, approved and certified ECDIS (with appropriate back-up arrangements) is the only alternative to paper charts for vessel navigation. Appropriate back-up systems may take the form of either paper charts or an independent, separate ECDIS.

soooooo like it or not - get your paper on board
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 06:54   #162
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,619
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

The SOLAS requirements only apply to merchant ships.
__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 07:08   #163
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,941
Images: 1
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Actually - no. SOLAS applies to whatever group of ships or boats the local authorities say it does. Here in DK the Maritime Authorities say all boats. The same is probably true for many countries
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 07:31   #164
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,619
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Actually - no. SOLAS applies to whatever group of ships or boats the local authorities say it does. Here in DK the Maritime Authorities say all boats. The same is probably true for many countries
Yes countries can impose whatever restriction they like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Just in case y'all didn't know - ya gotta have paper charts or you're not gonna be legal
This statment is incorrect.
A British flagged private yacht for example does not need any saftey equipment at all to be legal.
When saling internationally most countries deem a yacht seaworthy it it meets the requirments of its home country even if these requirments are different from local boats.
There are some exceptions to the above general rule.
__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2012, 07:57   #165
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
Re: Paper charts now unnessary

A lightning strike might prove otherwise!
__________________

__________________
Randy

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charts

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.