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Old 23-05-2012, 00:16   #76
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
When did we become so sure that our existence is assured?
Couple of thousand years ago, "And man shall till the earth". And so began a massive shift in mans view of his place in the world, where man was no longer just a part of everything but seperate from the natural world, "better" and somehow "in control". From religion through the enlightenment into humanism.

Not my idea, read Straw Dogs by John Gray.

We are the earths true masters of self delusion.

Why does everyone look to what the "Answer" is, but not look at the possibility of there being no "answer", no "way it should be". A more disturbing question is asking if itīs possible that we have no more control of the future of the species than bacteria in a petri dish, population increasing exponentially so long as there is enough food to keep bodies alive long enough to breed.

John N. Gray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Amazon.com: Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals (9780374270933): John Gray: Books

But donīt let that get in the way of having a good day or doing what you can, it sort of lets you off the hook.
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Old 23-05-2012, 02:02   #77
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Couple of thousand years ago, "And man shall till the earth". And so began a massive shift in mans view of his place in the world, where man was no longer just a part of everything but seperate from the natural world, "better" and somehow "in control". From religion through the enlightenment into humanism.

Not my idea, read Straw Dogs by John Gray.

We are the earths true masters of self delusion.

Why does everyone look to what the "Answer" is, but not look at the possibility of there being no "answer", no "way it should be". A more disturbing question is asking if itīs possible that we have no more control of the future of the species than bacteria in a petri dish, population increasing exponentially so long as there is enough food to keep bodies alive long enough to breed.

John N. Gray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Amazon.com: Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals (9780374270933): John Gray: Books

But donīt let that get in the way of having a good day or doing what you can, it sort of lets you off the hook.
"Amen" to that... (and to what newt wrote too).
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Old 23-05-2012, 06:27   #78
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

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Don't think so. They mostly truck it to huge landfills in Pennsylvania and Virginia.
FYI, Here is where tons of NYC **** end up on property by me in far West Texas.

Sierra Blanca, the Nation's Largest Sewage Dump

In the last 3 years has cost me over 336k to install water purifying equipment @ our hq & all ranch sites to help protect the workers and the visitors. So top notch water equipment with UV on our boat is a no brainer! LOL! At least the sea doesn't stink like NYC does!

Johnny
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Old 26-05-2012, 06:52   #79
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

I think this material relates somehow to documenting some of the damage done:

MIDWAY - a film by Chris Jordan

b.
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Old 29-05-2012, 06:18   #80
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

Current report- We spotted no trash out there at the 30-40 kmiles out area until we got close to the Columbia River. Then there was some light trash, Styrofoam, pieces of plastic cups etc. So far the west coast in Washington/Oregon seems OK.
That doesn't make any of this OK, but I have not heard of any large (Nav hazard stuff) coming to our coast yet.
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:49   #81
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

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Last year I read about a study that had been performed on the Pacific Garbage Patch. Much to the researchers' surprise, they found that plastic actually is degrading to microscopic size particles at a far more rapid pace than ever imagined. And the Patch has created an entire eco-system beneath it, found lots of fish and marine creatures of all sizes. The idea of collecting this plastic is ludicrous. The first Asian typhoon will create another Patch.

Judy
Likely that their is more ocean life supported by this structure of the plastic junk than would be if there was no plastic junk.
So think of it like an artificial reef of floating plastic pieces.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:04   #82
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

Yeah, an artificial reef that is killing sea life at an amazing rate. Fish, birds, turtles have never evolved to the point that they can digest plastic and so they are dying in amazing numbers.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:04   #83
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

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Yeah, an artificial reef that is killing sea life at an amazing rate. Fish, birds, turtles have never evolved to the point that they can digest plastic and so they are dying in amazing numbers.
another quote
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And the Patch has created an entire eco-system beneath it, found lots of fish and marine creatures of all sizes.
which is it going to be then?
I have seen pictures of turtles caught in plastic 6 pack can holders which they dont make here and pictures of seabirds who consumed larger pieces of plastic trash who did die. As opposed to myriad multitudes of sea life which live in and around the plastic bits and would not be there in those numbers if there were no small bits of plastic trash. I expect larger animals eating a greater abundance of smaller ones means greater population of larger animals and then you will see more larger animals dying from eating plastic trash bits cause there is more of them around also feeding on the lesser creatures.


So rather than fewer animal life you have more abundant animal life and you will see more deaths.

As has clearly been stated by someone who knows, you cant go siphoning up all this trashy bits without killing everything in and around it which would not be there anyway if it were not for the structure. So you advocate creating an ocean desert of clear water then?
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:31   #84
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

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Yeah, an artificial reef that is killing sea life at an amazing rate.
I'm not a fan of trash in the water, but what are the statistics and source to back up the claim.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:44   #85
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

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I expect larger animals eating a greater abundance of smaller ones means greater population of larger animals and then you will see more larger animals dying from eating plastic trash bits cause there is more of them around also feeding on the lesser creatures.
Why do you expect that? Did you find some data to suggest that?
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:45   #86
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

Seems to me the garbage patch is in a centralized area in the Pacific High for the most part.The Pacific is a big place,siphoning up a small area would have a small effect on the ocean creatures,compared to leaving it to be ingested,then spreading further.Check out, "Midway Journey"
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:03   #87
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

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Why do you expect that? Did you find some data to suggest that?
I often wonder, when reading the pros and cons of this type of thread, how much we really stop to think what part we play in the problem.
We sail boats with hulls, and sails made of the same olil-based chemistry
of the major polutant plastics. (Except you wood crowd)
We store all sorts of goods in our boats, of the same material.
Our engines and stoves produce the atmosphere- destroying gasses we are all so concerned about.
Where will it all end up?
Often brings to mind the opening scenes in 2001: A Space Odyssey, when the ape hurls the rotating bone into the air--and we move to the orbiting space station.
We really are a creative lot--in some minds, to our own detriment.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:06   #88
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

Today is "World Oceans Day",if that means anything anymore...
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:13   #89
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

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We really are a creative lot--in some minds, to our own detriment.


Lets face it, we won't be the first species or civilization to fall by the wayside. Why should we be any different?
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:43   #90
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Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

Personally I think the answer is a radical depopulation of the earth. I favour emptying Africa and the Middle East. and maybe also Australia . and Guernsey .

Getting into details would probably breach the CF "play nice" rule - but if Hitler had acted "for the Penguins" Al Gore would have made a film about him .

Think of the fish .
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