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Old 23-09-2016, 09:35   #31
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

I think you lose some awareness of your surrounding staring at the digital screen. Made a trip to eastern Oregon from WA this summer. Daughter riding with me. She navigated with her Iphone. I had good maps but was driving. I had my trip planned. Her phone said to exit the freeway just south of Portland instead of 50 miles further south per my plan to go east from the freeway. So we followed her phone. It took thru a nice residential neighborhood, around Lake Oswego, along a small country highway... and back to the freeway. All done per the phone's instructions! It was a 40 minute loss of time. But evidently was technically a shorter distance than the simple freeway to highway map route. So the Phone decided it was best! How many times have you followed a car GPS to find out it leads you to a dead end street that it thinks goes thru? :>)
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Old 23-09-2016, 09:40   #32
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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How many times have you followed a car GPS to find out it leads you to a dead end street that it thinks goes thru? :>)
My usual problem is the GPS system not being current as to which streets are closed due to construction and which are not.
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Old 23-09-2016, 09:52   #33
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

Ahhhh Electronic Navigation.....One Diode away from Disaster.....
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Old 23-09-2016, 09:59   #34
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

Oh Dear!!

Are we all taking the OP's question seriously???

I thot it could only be sardonic.

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Old 23-09-2016, 10:36   #35
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

i know of two boats that were struck by lightning hundreds of miles offshore. they lost ALL of their electronics. if that every happens to me i can pull out my sextant, and with my watch and a few tables of celestial data, find my way to port.
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Old 23-09-2016, 10:42   #36
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

As for chronometers that never lose time, ahem. I'm reading an account of the first days of Vancouver's arrival in Puget Sound. He had clear skies and was able to take solar and lunar sightings at the same time, giving him an accurate time as well as position. Turns out his chronometer was 45 minutes and 46 seconds fast. I have to rethink chronometers as the (then) state of the art time keeper....

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Old 23-09-2016, 10:44   #37
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

Modern science can reasonably predict major solar events that might cause problems for GPS, but not much can predict a lightning strike, so total failure is just one lightning strike away. It is uncommon, but you dont want to be helpless in that situation. Another problem is GPS jamming. It is becoming common enough that there was recently a 52 page report that my brother (electronics engineer) was required to read for his job. Jammers are illegal but available on the internet (not called jammers on the internet) and sophisticated thieves are starting to use them to steal high end cars that can normally be tracked by GPS. The government was going to do a test jamming from a northern California base that would have jammed GPS from Southern Calif, up to Oregon and Idaho. The FAA and airlines put a stop to that dangerous test. If our govt. can jam GPS over such a large area, then other govts. must have similar capabilities. Technology can be a double edged sword. A 6 knot sailboat would have time to figure things out if GPS failed, but airplanes and self-driving cars could be in instant trouble. It is a troubling thought. _____Grant.
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Old 23-09-2016, 10:47   #38
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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i know of two boats that were struck by lightning hundreds of miles offshore. they lost ALL of their electronics. if that every happens to me i can pull out my sextant, and with my watch and a few tables of celestial data, find my way to port.

What have you done to protect the watches?
Don't get me wrong, I agree with your anticipated course of action but the watches getting fried is something to consider too.

My preparations are 2 pronged. I'm going to get a waterproof metal ammo case and store backup Casio watches in there. As a backup to the Casios I bought a 1960's Soviet made knockoff of a Rolex pocket watch for $35. I haven't checked it's rate but that's on the todo list.

Our local Costcos have the ammo boxes currently.


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Old 23-09-2016, 10:48   #39
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

I mean, everyone will always have GPS...
AGREE!

Even if you know how to navigate, as I do, it takes practice, lots of practice. And I am out of practice...spoiled by the chartplotter. I used to go everywhere with just a chart and compass. Now if the chartplotter fails (as it sometimes does) I'm in a panic. Its not just navigation. What about driving a car and finding an address? We are all becoming helpless.
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Old 23-09-2016, 10:52   #40
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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Depends what country, in the UK most people take a bit of pride in at least vaguely knowing how it's done even if the gps is on all the time, northern Europe in general the new blood seem to like to learn. Southern Europe / med..........
Without even looking up your location I would make a bet that you are most likely from Northern Europe where "the new blood seem to like to learn". I came from the southern US. I'm not sure I like to learn anymore either.
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Old 23-09-2016, 10:54   #41
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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As for chronometers that never lose time, ahem. I'm reading an account of the first days of Vancouver's arrival in Puget Sound. He had clear skies and was able to take solar and lunar sightings at the same time, giving him an accurate time as well as position. Turns out his chronometer was 45 minutes and 46 seconds fast. I have to rethink chronometers as the (then) state of the art time keeper....

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Was that the error in watch time or the error in corrected time or does the account you read indicate?

Once running chronometers aren't reset unless you have a very good source of time to reset them to. You apply the predicted error to watch time to get corrected time. If correction applied most recently to watch time was 46m00s then they were only off 14sec between corrected and true time.


A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground you would never try to refloat it.
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Old 23-09-2016, 11:02   #42
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

True Virgins Make Dull Companions At Weddings

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Old 23-09-2016, 11:05   #43
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

I learned celestial navigation once and then promptly lost most memory of the intricate details. I had a sextant and tables. Even a how to do it book to refresh my memory. I suppose I could at least relearn the theory.

The practice is something else entirely, whether you have a chronometer or not. It is something that takes a great deal of practice over long periods of time in my experience. I actually feel somewhat optimistic that I could find land in some direction if I had to. The big issue is whether I would have enough food or water to get there to still be alive.

I do believe in documenting approximately where I am at any given moment, to a point. I have to admit I did not log my coordinates every hour. I did log them several times a day on long passages. Rarely did I do so on coastal hops.

I do believe in having charts, at least for big areas. I do believe in close quarters navigating to avoid ships and coastal hazards, and even reefs in the ocean. Actually that might be the biggest hazard is that you could bump in to a low lying atoll at night or a bigger object in a storm. I can assure you that if I lost data on exactly where I am I would be on heightened alert on all watches.

And then "stuff happens". You either make it or you don't. I do have the liferaft, EPRIB, extra food and water, signaling gear, extra radios stored in as safe as can be from extra electrical emanations from lightening or solar storms. It all a risk I'm okay with. I'm more okay with that then trying to pretend I remember or will relearn or manage to take good readings with a sextant.

I don't rely only on chartplotters or GPS to know where I am at near land or hazards. There are a lot more reasons why your GPS or chartplotter might not be up and running right when you need them just before you hit something.

The sailors I really worry about are those whose idea of navigating is using iPhones and iPads.
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Old 23-09-2016, 11:06   #44
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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Your analogies don't work.
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Of course they work. Unless you just want to argue.
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Old 23-09-2016, 11:07   #45
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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True Virgins Make Dull Companions At Weddings

I can fix that for you:

True Virgins Make Dull Companions - Add Whiskey...
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