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Old 22-09-2016, 20:18   #16
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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In fact I have an extra hand bearing compass... remember those pucks? PM me
And that is the "legal" method to determine a risk of collision.

I have 2 HBCs.
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Old 22-09-2016, 20:39   #17
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

I contend that using electronics IS navigating. I, like many here have done it both ways on the water and in the air. Including Omega and the early Lorans. The late Loran Cs with enough computing power to adjust for changes in rate of propagation over various land/water masses were very good. GPS is just plain better. However if I had been King we would have kept Loran C as secondary with GPS as primary. No nav system is a substitute for situational awareness. Trust but verify. If you note your position, course and speed every hour it is not rocket science to figure out where you will be an hour from the last point if the do do hits the fan.
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Old 22-09-2016, 22:35   #18
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

begs the question - air nav would have been a driver for a great deal of innovation in nav. - you dont have the luxury of bobbing along at 6 knots while you leisurely work out the maths...interesting one for the 'what if gps fails' crowd, considering the proposition that at any one time there are 100s of 1000s of people up in the air.
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Old 23-09-2016, 00:05   #19
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Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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Originally Posted by Jdege View Post
You mean you don't have one of these?




Nice.
I covet.

I actually researched mechanical pocket watches just for this situation. I got a Soviet Molinja knockoff of a Rolex for $35 plus shipping. I haven't checked the error rate yet but will eventually. Turns out it's pretty hard to find a mechanical watch these days that's not an auto-winder which preclude winding at set times of day.

A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground you would never try to refloat it.
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Old 23-09-2016, 00:21   #20
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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And that is the "legal" method to determine a risk of collision.

I have 2 HBCs.
Taking a bearing off your stanchion will do the same.

But to answer the OP, yes gps chartplotters, ipads and iphones work great nearly 100% of the time, but nothing beats having a paper chart and compass to get the BIG picture.

Sometimes people get so consumed by watching the chartplotter, they forget to look out for objects or shorelines right on front of them. The charts aren't always correct. Ended up once this season in a field of boulders just under the surface when the chart indicated 6 meters depth (18ft). Thank goodness for having a forward facing depth sounder. Another time, we almost ran into a lighthouse when the goto was set for a point further out.

It's good to have two people on watch.
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Old 23-09-2016, 06:29   #21
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

[QUOTE=Adelie;2219304]Nice.
I covet.]/QUOTE]
It's truly beautiful to watch the mechanism work. All the intervals are gold-plated.

Problem is that the mechanism is so well protected, inside its brass case, behind half-an-inch of crystal, then buried in nested boxes so that nobody can see it.
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Old 23-09-2016, 06:39   #22
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

Apparently Joshua made it around with an old clock without a minute hand and a school atlas.
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Old 23-09-2016, 07:25   #23
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

Redundancy is never a bad thing since systems do fail but I'm guessing it's a skill developed as needed prior to venturing into unfamiliar waters with no prior knowledge of landmarks. Poor visability aside, people don't need to know too much about navigation to get from MDR to Redondo Beach and back. Need a little more knowledge to sail to Catalina Island. More still to get down to Ensenada and not run into the Coronados in the middle of the night. Heading to Hawaii (or beyond) it might be time to buy a sextant and learn how to use it.

I wonder how many hikers carry a magnetic compass and topo maps when they hit the trail?
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Old 23-09-2016, 07:46   #24
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

Basically the new blood does not know how to navigate gps-less.

This is the future of "navigation".

b.
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Old 23-09-2016, 07:51   #25
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

I mean, everyone will always have GPS...
Very few people know how to shoe a horse any more and some folks can't drive a standard shift car. Some can't tell time from an analog clock or "dial" a telephone.

It is often said (in the technical world) that it takes a generation for new technology to catch on. Meaning, of course that it takes that long for the folks who don't understand or accept it to get out of the way.

Some folks boat for the challenges and some for enjoyment. That's OK, whatever floats your boat. Technology is pretty well integrated into our daily lives and for the most part is pretty reliable.

And of course, we do not all boat under the same conditions.


Let's stop lamenting the "good old days" and look to the future.
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Old 23-09-2016, 08:02   #26
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pirate Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

Who's lamenting.. absorbed some new.. coz I'm lazy.. but still live in the 'good ole days' in many other aspects..
Nuns still grow cucumbers ya know.. just given up the 'press-ups' in this electronic age..
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Old 23-09-2016, 08:31   #27
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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Basically the new blood does not know how to navigate gps-less.

This is the future of "navigation".

b.
Depends what country, in the UK most people take a bit of pride in at least vaguely knowing how it's done even if the gps is on all the time, northern Europe in general the new blood seem to like to learn. Southern Europe / med..........
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Old 23-09-2016, 09:14   #28
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

As in much in life, people gravitate to new technology because, in their minds, it makes life simpler. I would agree. It is definitely an improvement, especially regarding GPS and satellite weather routing, and makes navigation a push button affair. However, there are some of us (probably the minority) who still regularly practice traditional navigation and view it and sailing as an escape from the fast-paced, technological world in which we live where a direct visceral contact with Nature is the goal. My charts and logbooks have a wealth of information on sea/wind state, currents, bottom characteristics, anomalies of charted material, depth contours affecting navigation, etc. that would never be factored into the big picture when strictly navigating by GPS. It is indisputable that a fix, running fix or LOP could never be as accurate as GPS. That is the trade-off. However, in today's politically unstable climate worldwide, the advance of sophisticated cyber-terrorism/war is a real possibility and even the US Navy is once again requiring proficiency in sextant navigation as a wise precaution. And, there is also the possibility of equipment failure that would render a purely electronic navigator lost and unable to navigate to safety. For the record, I am not anti-technology and use a GPS for fixes but continue to use charts whenever we sail. Sailing is many things to many people from the ultra technology of high-tech offshore sailors to the Zen simplicity of Roger Taylor. When I cast off lines or pull anchor in an isolated anchorage, I go to sea to escape shoreside life and all it entails. The sea may be the last refuge for those who dance to a different drummer. Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 23-09-2016, 09:22   #29
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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Depends what country, in the UK most people take a bit of pride in at least vaguely knowing how it's done even if the gps is on all the time, northern Europe in general the new blood seem to like to learn. Southern Europe / med..........
I have not noticed. Over last couple of years the only young Brit in possession of sound nav skills we met was Leo Goolden.

http://sampsonboat.co.uk/

Otherwise, it is a desert.

Young people are no longer interested in educating themselves. The civilization has changed. Consume, consume ...

b.
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Old 23-09-2016, 09:32   #30
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Re: Nobody really needs to know how to navigate anymore, do they?

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Very few people know how to shoe a horse any more and some folks can't drive a standard shift car. Some can't tell time from an analog clock or "dial" a telephone.

It is often said (in the technical world) that it takes a generation for new technology to catch on. Meaning, of course that it takes that long for the folks who don't understand or accept it to get out of the way.

Your analogies don't work.
If you get a horse with no shoes, be careful where you ride it and how hard you push it.

If you can't drive a stick don't buy a car with one. Heaven knows the rental companies don't have them in the US anymore, maybe in Europe. It's not like lightning can strike and turn your automatic transmission into a manual leaving you high and dry. And even if it did you could still get out and walk.

If you are offshore and lightning strikes what do you do, stop and wait around until somebody comes by and tells you which way land is?

Admittedly loss of primary and backup GPSs is a low probability event but it has high consequences when it happens.

Your boat sinking is less likely than loss of GPS but odds are you have a liferaft. If so it looks to me like you are willing to spend money to partially address the potential sinking of your boat but are unwilling to spend the time and effort to learn the skills that would completely alleviate the loss of GPS.


A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground you would never try to refloat it.
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