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Old 11-12-2013, 13:16   #31
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country.

Red Feather..

I married a Brazilian resident in Norway and as she preferred to live near her retired parents,we moved to Sao Paulo in 2003 as I had recently retired on a below tax level pension. All of 7 years there after,the taxman started helping himself to 15% of my meager pension,because,he said, I was not spending my pension in Norway.
I, and 40.000 other Norwegians round the world have been fighting the issue ever since without much luck so far. I do´nt know what tax agreement Norway has with the US,but you should check it out. All this of course concerns pension payments which are received from Norway.

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Old 11-12-2013, 13:20   #32
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country.

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Red Feather..

I married a Brazilian resident in Norway and as she preferred to live near her retired parents,we moved to Sao Paulo in 2003 as I had recently retired on a below tax level pension. All of 7 years there after,the taxman started helping himself to 15% of my meager pension,because,he said, I was not spending my pension in Norway.
I, and 40.000 other Norwegians round the world have been fighting the issue ever since without much luck so far. I do´nt know what tax agreement Norway has with the US,but you should check it out. All this of course concerns pension payments which are received from Norway.

Tore
The same happened to my mother-in-law, who now lives in the Netherlands. The difference is income vs. pension funds. Governments change tax rates all the time, but pensions are particularly vulnerable and are easier to withhold than income earned in another country.
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Old 11-12-2013, 13:30   #33
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country.

Red Feather..

I did´nt want this thread to be an extended discussion forum on tax matters in general,just letting people retired from Europe to a foreign country know what is happening.

I also did not mention the´color´ of ethnic norwegians just trying to explain the problem Europe is experiencing with an exodus of emigration from troubled countries, mainly from people with little or no education or knowledge of language, making employment impossible and for that reason a great expense for the local social services. Your dialogue about rich and poor does not apply to this problem.

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Old 11-12-2013, 13:34   #34
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country.

Seems fair enough to me. The US needs to do this on social security and state pensions as well. If you're not putting money back into to your local economy, why should those still working continue to pay you?
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Old 11-12-2013, 14:05   #35
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This sounds odd. My husband is a Norwegian citizen who has lived in the U.S. for more than a decade. We have never paid Norwegian tax. The Norwegian tax code says you must be a "resident" of Norway to be liable to pay taxes there. This means that if you maintain a residence in Norway, regardless of where you actually spend your time, then you are legally a resident. If you do not maintain a residence in Norway AND you establish a permanent residence somewhere else, your income is not taxable as long as you pay taxes in that country. See Norwegian tax info here. If we've misinterpreted this, we're in trouble.
I think Tore touched on this a bit ago, but from my understanding, the "kildeskatt" or source tax is only for payments made from the Norwegian pension fund. His income in the US is not taxable in Norway as long as he has declared emigration/ given up his membership in the pension fund/welfare system (folketrygden). Interestingly, you can actually elect to stay in the system, but it will cost you..

Now, when he retires, and assuming he had earned enough "points" to get something (I likely won't), that something would be subject to the source tax. Unlike Brazil, it looks to me like that income would actually be taxable in the USA (double taxation) , as there is no tax agreement between Norway and the USA, at least not one that affects this.

I am certainly not a tax expert, so verify all of the above with a professional. . Tore, does any of what I stated match what you have heard?
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Old 11-12-2013, 14:35   #36
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country.

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Seems fair enough to me. The US needs to do this on social security and state pensions as well. If you're not putting money back into to your local economy, why should those still working continue to pay you?
Because they already paid their share through Social Security deductions while THEY were working, many while living off teacher and bus driver salaries. And no economy is an island, these days. Supporting the economy in lower-wage countries creates jobs there that can keep people from needing to migrate to wealthier nations.

Yes, monstads, my MIL paid to stay in the system and it's been a big headache.
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Old 11-12-2013, 14:52   #37
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country.

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Red Feather..

I did´nt want this thread to be an extended discussion forum on tax matters in general,just letting people retired from Europe to a foreign country know what is happening.

I also did not mention the´color´ of ethnic norwegians just trying to explain the problem Europe is experiencing with an exodus of emigration from troubled countries, mainly from people with little or no education or knowledge of language, making employment impossible and for that reason a great expense for the local social services. Your dialogue about rich and poor does not apply to this problem.

Tore
Then please explain what an "ethnic" Norwegian is? Don't non-ethnic Norwegians pay taxes, too? Assuming ethnic Norwegians aren't the only ones who work and pay taxes, it would make more sense to frame the discussion in terms of those who pay into the system (who are of many nationalities given Norway's resident requirement) and those who don't pay into the system because they don't work (including ethnic Norwegians)? If I lived in Norway, I'd be paying taxes there as a U.S. citizen. I'm not trying to bust your chops; just pointing out that the language you used doesn't conform to the spirit of Norway's image of itself. Norway could always give up its terribly expensive monarchy. Do they work and pay taxes? Wish the U.S. could boot the freeloaders in Congress.
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Old 11-12-2013, 15:00   #38
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country.

I reckon you can't have your cake and eat it to. I also bet a Norwegian bus driver earned damn good money.

This it the pyramid scheme of public retirement. The current workers pay "into" the system to fund mostly current retirees. So most of that money paid out every month to retirees needs to recycle thru the economy providing it. Most sensible approach to Detroit pension problems I heard was require everyone getting a check to LIVE IN DETROIT. Same with Norway or the US, New Zealand already has a 6 month a year rule and I believe the UK has a residency requirement.

This could go on and on, but good on this bloke and best of luck fighting the economic
realities faced by first world nations.
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Old 11-12-2013, 17:06   #39
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country in retirement.

Yes Monstads,you are right...

And,just to put the record straight,I HAVE worked for MY pension,ever since I signed on as a 16 year old crew member on an old steamer in 1949,helping to reconstruct the Norwegian economy after 5 years of German occupation during WWII. I retired in Norway at 65 and emigrated to Brazil in 2003. I think I have done MY bit and deserve to enjoy my retirement in peace.

ANY other Norwegian who satisfies the pension-earning requirements,are of
course entitled to the same as I.

The PRESENT people,still working,are working for THEIR retirement,not mine!

Please forgive me for opting out of the discussion at this stage,I very much enjoyed your comments,and hope the tax man will be gentle to you.

Tore
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Old 11-12-2013, 18:15   #40
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country.

Here in the US they have just agreed to a new budget. This new budget REQUIRES that federal employees contribute more to their pension plans. Why? Because the federal pension plans are bankrupt and they need a new cash infusion.

IMO Our federal government is about 3 or 4 times the size it needs to be. There should be an across the board cut of 3 out of 4 federal employees and the "services" they previous provided should be dolled out to private companies. Start with the VA and the Tricare. Who needs Obamacare AND tricare? Nobody likes tricare anyhow.

Smaller government = less taxes
Bigger government = more taxes
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Old 11-12-2013, 18:24   #41
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Re: New´source tax´on exPatriates leaving their country.

I think that the OP may have confused "Source Tax" with "Source Withholding". I am in the US and a tax atty here. We have a similar provision as many countries do. When income is earned and paid to a non-citizen or non-resident, the source state, Norway here, has no way to ensure that that non-resident will file a tax return. So, they require the payor to withhold some % of the income earned, seems to be 15% in Norway. If the non-resident does not file a tax return, the state gets to keep the $$. However, and this is the important part-if the non-resident files a tax return, and owes no tax or tax less than the amount withheld, he gets a refund. It is just a mechanism for a state to collect taxes from non-residents. In this case, the OP says his Norway pension is non-taxable. The payor is withholding 15% og the payments. The op should talk to a tax advisor in Norway and see if he needs to file a Norway non-resident tax return to have the $$ refunded.
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Old 11-12-2013, 18:48   #42
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It's not complex it is detailed here


Rules about Norwegian withholding tax on pensions
Last updated: 7/18/2013 // From January 2010, new rules will apply for tax on pensions paid from Norway to persons not resident in Norway for tax purposes. The new rules mean that you are in principle liable to tax in Norway for Norwegian pensions even if you have moved from Norway for tax purposes or have never been resident in Norway. The tax is 15 per cent of the gross pension amount.

Withholding tax on pensions cover:
• basic and supplementary pension from the National Insurance scheme
• public occupational pensions
• private occupational pensions
• other private pensions

The pension payer shall deduct 15 per cent tax from the gross pension amount from 1 January 2010.

There are a few exceptions from the tax liability:
• You are not liable to pay tax on private occupational pensions and other private pensions if you have not earned pensions points in the Norwegian National Insurance scheme.
• You may be entitled to full or partial tax exemption pursuant to the tax treaty with the country in which you are resident

You may be entitled to a lower tax rate than 15 per cent when you live in an EEA country and at least 90 per cent of your income is liable to tax in Norway.

If your pension is fully or partially exempt from tax in Norway or if you are to pay tax at a lower rate, you must apply for a tax exemption or a tax deduction card with a deduction rate of less than 15 per cent. It is your own responsibility to obtain the required documentation and submit it to the tax office.

Enquiries relating to withholding tax on pension should be addressed to the Norwegian Tax Administration www.skatteetaten.no


Simples

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