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Old 04-11-2012, 05:21   #1
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Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this Moment

Were 4 miles south of Egmont channel. Have carnival Cruise ship and a very large Freighter in close proximity on the marine traffic tracker on our android. We have fog so severe visibility is 50' at best. It was a clear night until 4 am. Wishing we had the aids in the title ......
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:28   #2
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this moment

Let the flogging begin.

In this day you just can't go without, especially in the approaches to major harbors.

On another note, I want to hear how you entered into a deep fog unaware.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:36   #3
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this moment

In my experience one enters into a deep fog unaware by simply being in a boat, and then there's fog all around you.

The O.P. will soon own an AIS unit, I predict.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:57   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia Bu
In my experience one enters into a deep fog unaware by simply being in a boat, and then there's fog all around you.

The O.P. will soon own an AIS unit, I predict.
Absolutely correct. We had two on watch all night by 4 am the fog intensified. By 6 am it was really bad. We slowed to 5 knots and woke another to help keep watch. I guess some places entering fog is like entering a walmart?? Not here...it just developed.
A bigger concern is careless fisherman heading off at a high rate of speed to get to here early morning spots, not seeing the white sailboat.....
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:09   #5
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this moment

a smallish radar unit is 1200 new, and not a lot used-- not a bad deal--cold be some help in a fog. fishrmen do not use ais, so radar may be the better idea for your use.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:27   #6
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this moment

AIS is a cute gizmo. But in the real world there are too many large-ish ships without it. Would it make any difference being hit by a ferryboat or fishing boat rather than a freighter? Radar is far more useful.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:39   #7
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this moment

Yep. I like having AIS, but for every AIS-equipped vessel I can "see" on the screen, there are usually somewhere between 5-50 non-equipped boats in sight.

My opinion: Radar reflector first, actual radar next, AIS if the budget still cooperates.

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Old 04-11-2012, 06:54   #8
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this moment

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
AIS is a cute gizmo. But in the real world there are too many large-ish ships without it. Would it make any difference being hit by a ferryboat or fishing boat rather than a freighter? Radar is far more useful.
Or both

I find AIS great for the big boys, the smaller stuff can be so unpredictable that knowing their course and speed, if from radar or ais, really isn't a lot of use anyway, they may well do something completely weird at any time. Ais is way way above a cute gizmo.

Not nice having no radar in the fog though.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:01   #9
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this moment

The formation of fog is fairly predictable, even when it "just appears".

Many times I have had fog appear suddenly. But rather than be surprised it is cool to see the predictions were accurate. What predictions and how can one come by these predictions?

There is NOAA which broadcasts weather observations and forecasts over VHF. There is the thermometer for air and water. There is physical observation of winds and currents. The fog the OP encountered was likely advection fog.

At night there was probably a land breeze which brought warm, moist air over the waters. Viola! Carrying a wet bulb thermometer (sling thermometer) the mariner can reveal the dew point. Observing the air temp/dew point spread will aid in determing the formation of fog and how deep the layer.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:17   #10
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this Moment

How about foghorns....what is everyone using? My design notes feature a compressed air train-style horn. Loud: earsplitting loud, anchorage-awakening loud, jestki-unhorsing loud, seagull-plucking loud.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:37   #11
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News update. 10 miles west of Pasadena A small 18-20 ft center console almost t boned us he was going at least 30 mph he veered off at the last second narrowly missing us but caught our fishing line that 50' behind our boat. He peeled off at least 200 yds of powerpro braid and I hope the a$$hole looses his lower unit and does not have Seatow etc. None of the above would have really helped us. And yes we have been sounding a warning signal every 3-5 minutes. Unbelievable
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:12   #12
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this Moment

Quote:
he was going at least 30 mph
Quote:
we have been sounding a warning signal every 3-5 minutes.
2.4km in three minutes....(sry, thoroughly metricised here...and I used 1600m per mile, not 1800). Does the foghorn carry 2.4km, over his engine noise?

Fog is another reason I'm going for tan sails. Also doesn't sear your retinas staring at them all day. That, and the ultraloud foghorn, plus a cheap pre-owned radar, and diligent watchkeeping, and prudent routing, and I'll be satisfied I've done what I can. I'd prefer a CIWS as well, but they seem to be out of stock at the moment. Hmmm, DIY might come up with something for that, too.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:29   #13
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Wasn't saying he should have heard us, sorry if it came across that way. Just informing of what we were doing. Not much you can do to stay safe from idiots going fast in ultra low visibility conditions.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:38   #14
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this Moment

An AIS transceiver is very useful when you consider that a vessel going 25 knots has far more flexibility for avoiding a collision than does another vessel going 5 knots. Don't think you are going to have much of a maneuvering option creating a large CPA only going 5 knots when the other guy might be going 5 times faster. At five knots you might as well be a buoy in a strong current as they see it. The other vessel is going to have the option for creating a larger CPA than you can. So you want to be lit up on their ECDIS. This is why them being lit up on your screen alone is not as effective. Their ARPA will typically not detect you before their AIS detects you. Or in other words, AIS has a greater range which makes it more effective because they can start maneuvering on you sooner, before they even see you visually(with those weak nav lights that yachts typically have) For out in the open ocean the standing orders might typically be a CPA of 2 miles. This means they are going to execute their maneuvering (Mx) sooner than 2 miles away.

With the transceiver you can also call each other by name in order to make passing arrangements. With radar alone, you are limited in that respect. You really want both. One does not make the other of no use.

Under IMO rules, all ships are supposed to have AIS now and almost all maritime countries are in compliance. It's not like only half the ships have an AIS transceiver, it is closer to 100% but not every last ship. All the large ports will not allow ships without AIS. So if they want to make money, they need AIS

Although not the perfect solution for every situation (there is no such thing), having an AIS transceiver is much better than having an AIS receiver or nothing at all. This is especially true at night or in reduced visibility.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:42   #15
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Re: Never really wanted Radar or AIS until this Moment

AIS is required by commercial vessels, 65 feet and above. It may also be carried by pleasure craft or smaller commercial craft. Been this way since 2003 (AIS Requirements).

Like RADAR, AIS must be turned on (at least in receive mode), when operating upon the waters. It's from the USCG Rules to Navigation (and the same as International rules).

Rule 5 - Lookout

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.
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