Need advice on electronics upgrade.

[Ted and Relinda]

We just bought B&G Zeus 3 w/4g radar. Waiting to get the time to I install it. I understand it will interface with our Raymarine a/p and our Standare Horizon GX2200 for ais reception.
Ted.

[CarinaPDX]

Furuno is generally considered the best - take a look at the radars on professional fishing boats and USCG launches - they are Furuno. It is also more expensive than the typical recreational gear; you get what you pay for. Support is excellent. The factory service center is just up the Columbia R. from here and the techs man the booth at the Seattle Boat Show. I have used their owner forum for years.

Of course the MFD and the radar need to be from the same vendor these days, but beyond that you shouldn't feel like you need to stay within the brand. The great majority of knotmeter and depth sensors are made by Airmar, then rebranded. The less expensive approach is to buy the Airmar-branded smart N2K transducers, at least for speed and depth - they work the same. Run the N2K backbone using the standard DeviceNet connectors (Furuno gear uses them but others often use proprietary connectors and are a nuisance to adapt). AIS is another item that is best bought from another manufacturer for the lowest price and latest technology.

The whole point of the N2K (NMEA 2000) bus is that products from different vendors can interoperate. For the most part this has been achieved, and allows selecting gear based on price and capability instead of being stuck with expensive proprietary or rebranded products from one vendor. Take advantage of it.

Greg

[Suijin]

The only real restraint is that your MFD and radar radome need to be from the same manufacturer (I'm almost certain of that although there may be exceptions).

I have all B&G stuff and am relatively happy with it. Some of their NMEA2000 network programming is a bit sloppy but I've finally gotten all the bugs out of mine.

If you're doing any single handing on a bigger boat the B&G "sail to apparent wind angle" and "auto tack" functionality of the B&G autopilot is pretty slick, and VERY useful in some situations.

I have a 9" MFD at the helm and two triton displays on the cabin bulkhead. I like having an MFD at the helm as I can touch/adjust/zoom without leaving the helm. Very useful when entering unfamiliar small harbors.

Navico MFDs can also be mirrored to a tablet or smartphone, which essentially allows you to sit under the dodger and see/use an MFD without having one installed at that station. However, you can control the autopilot from one for safety reasons.

Would I go all B&G again if I had to do it all over again? I'm not so sure. I think there have been some hiccups as they got integrated into Navico. I was always a Garmin person and I might give them a good look if I was in the market again.

[CarinaPDX]

In choosing an MFD vendor you should consider the chart situation. With Garmin you will be constrained to their charts. Others, including Furuno, may give you a choice of Cmap or Navionics charts. In the case of Furuno in the US, NOAA vector and raster charts are included and are updated annually - for free. Some competitors will bundle US charts, at a cost, but will require a purchase for updates. IIRC some vendors change chart formats relatively frequently, thus obsoleting the chartplotter. Definitely do your homework regarding the chart situation as part of your MFD choice.


Greg

[wingssail]

We have 40yr old B&G Hercules sailing instruments. They have been excellent, though at this age there is some downtime. However, they all work and the features, for a 40yr old system, are amazing. I would go with B&G for sailing instruments, Hercules if you can afford it.

Put them forward of the helm's station unless you plan to sit in a captain's chair back there steering all of the time. Usually the watch standers are in the cockpit near the companionway. All of our displays are forward either on the cabin top or the mast below the gooseneck.

For a navigation MFD and system, buy everything from one vendor and put the main unit below decks for navigation, course plotting, etc, where it is dry and quiet. Have a repeater at the helm.

We use OpenCPN in the nav station, Raymarine for autopilot, and have no navigation screen on deck, no radar, and the AIS displays on the OpenCPN or the Standard Horizon VHF set.

I don't advocate an "all in one" set up. Honestly, I hear every season from people whose (whatever brand) unit just stops giving information or something, usually while approaching a harbor. Then they have nothing.

[jibstay]

We went with a small 7” MFD at the helm with WiFi to mirror it to an iPad. That way, we can use the iPad anywhere on the boat.

[Alita49DS]

All these bits of kit are great and each has its advantages. Many of which are subjective. Other than perhaps Raymarine trying to lock you into its ecosystem when the whole idea of NMEA2000 is to be plug and play.

Couple of points:

1. Your car has its instruments in line of sight of the driver for an obvious reason. If you only have one MFD it should be in line of sight and control by the helmsman for the same reason.

2. These days having one MFD is not much of a compromise. The data can be WiFi linked to a phone or tablet which will also be able to control it if so wished.

3. Having said that there is a lot of subjectivity about controls and displays, to me the USP of the Garmin MFD is that once a Go To or course has been set there is a nice thick purple line showing it. One can see at a glance where in relation to that line the boat is. By comparison, the pecked line on a Raymarine MFD is well nigh invisible if you need glasses. Again, if you use mapping in your car or on your phone the route is clear. It needs to be on an MFD.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

All these bits of kit are great and each has its advantages. Many of which are subjective. Other than perhaps Raymarine trying to lock you into its ecosystem when the whole idea of NMEA2000 is to be plug and play.

Couple of points:

1. Your car has its instruments in line of sight of the driver for an obvious reason. If you only have one MFD it should be in line of sight and control by the helmsman for the same reason.

......

This is fine if you are a day sailer or usually only do short trips. If you are doing long passages, it makes a lot more sense to mount the chartplotter where it can be seen and dealt with where you normally stay on watch. For us that is tucked under the dodger with the autopilot driving.

[steve77]

Originally Posted by Paul L

This is fine if you are a day sailer or usually only do short trips. If you are doing long passages, it makes a lot more sense to mount the chartplotter where it can be seen and dealt with where you normally stay on watch. For us that is tucked under the dodger with the autopilot driving.

I respectfully disagree. These are opinions, and we can differ. I mounted our MFD at the helm, with an identical MFD below at the nav station and a Triton display at the companionway. On watch, every ten minutes the person will stand up, look around, walk three steps to get behind the wheel, and check the MFD (radar, AIS, etc.). If the weather is really bad, they can stay tucked in the dodger and check the MFD down below. This has happened very rarely. The MFD at the helm is used 20 times more often than the one down below.

If I could only install one, then I would put it at the helm. My opinion only.

Cheers!

Steve

[Alita49DS]

Originally Posted by steve77

I respectfully disagree. These are opinions, and we can differ. I mounted our MFD at the helm, with an identical MFD below at the nav station and a Triton display at the companionway. On watch, every ten minutes the person will stand up, look around, walk three steps to get behind the wheel, and check the MFD (radar, AIS, etc.). If the weather is really bad, they can stay tucked in the dodger and check the MFD down below. This has happened very rarely. The MFD at the helm is used 20 times more often than the one down below.

If I could only install one, then I would put it at the helm. My opinion only.

Cheers!

Steve

Thank you for making my reply for me!

I would only add that when on a long passage miles off shore I am not that interested in the last few metres of position. Apart from which, the autopilot will track the course for me. My eyes and the AIS alarm will hopefully help avoid hitting anything. It is at close quarters when on the helm that you really need the MFD in line of sight.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

Thank you for making my reply for me!

I would only add that when on a long passage miles off shore I am not that interested in the last few metres of position. Apart from which, the autopilot will track the course for me. My eyes and the AIS alarm will hopefully help avoid hitting anything. It is at close quarters when on the helm that you really need the MFD in line of sight.

Well my MFD mounted next to the companionway is in the line of site from the helm with some of tbe key items large enough to be useful by the helmsman( landmasses, cog line, heading line), as are the wind, depth and speed instruments over the companionway.

Not sure why you think the chartplotter is not used offshore. I see no reason to get up from behind the dodger at 2am and climb behind the wheel to acquire a radar target, wait long enough to determine its course and speed, figure out a passing plan and then turn the dial on the autopilot 4 degress to starboard, then go back under the dodger. All without ever touching the wheel. Much easier to do this and monitor the situation from the normal watch position. Same goes for monitoring squalls and AIS targets. On a passage I might make a dozen steering adjustments a day with zero of them being with the wheel.
To each his own.
As far having one chartplotter above decks and one at the nav station below, I think this was very common in tbe past for boats that had the money to spend. Today more cruisers invest in one plotter above decks and use a PC below for planning.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Paul L

As far having one chartplotter above decks and one at the nav station below, I think this was very common in tbe past for boats that had the money to spend. Today more cruisers invest in one plotter above decks and use a PC below for planning.

Yes, certainly, as long as you can export your routes and waypoints from the nav station to the chartplotter.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

1. Your car has its instruments in line of sight of the driver for an obvious reason. If you only have one MFD it should be in line of sight and control by the helmsman for the same reason.

If you are motoring and you are sitting on your fat a$$ behind the helm, probably you can't see forward anyhow because of canvass, foggy glass, and piles of stuff forward, and you certainly can't see the sails, you might as well be staring into a MFD running navionics or some other sort of crap.

On the other hand, if you are under sail on a passage (cruising, right?) you're not back there steering, the autopilot or windvane is doing that. You, or your watch stander, will be leaning their back against the cockpit seatback and monitoring some instruments in their line of sight, like for a change in wind direction, etc.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by wingssail

If you are motoring and you are sitting on your fat a$$ behind the helm, probably you can't see forward anyhow because of canvass, foggy glass, and piles of stuff forward, and you certainly can't see the sails, you might as well be staring into a MFD running navionics or some other sort of crap.

On the other hand, if you are under sail on a passage (cruising, right?) you're not back there steering, the autopilot or windvane is doing that. You, or your watch stander, will be leaning their back against the cockpit seatback and monitoring some instruments in their line of sight, like for a change in wind direction, etc.

Or trying to cross a bar or enter an inlet in **** weather trying to pick your way through rocks and shoals trying to pan over to see if there’s a better route etc through and your mfd is too far away to pan and the waters to rough to trust the autopilot on a lee shore. I agree though, a pc or some sort of secondary plotter below to plot or re-route/re-plan the next few days travel is essential as a backup and for ease of use. Wifi, tablets and phones are the icing on the cake but should not be relied on; phones go in the water tablets get wet **** happens.

[Bruce K]

If you want the most reliable and easy to use, go look at your local fishing/ commercial boats, the don't normallly use toys. Around here its Furuno, Koden and Thrane & Thrane/Sailor. They usually use stand alone units rather than a MFD; gives more than one point of failure.