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Old 26-10-2012, 21:09   #1
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Navionics - Why?

Hi there,

Can someone explain to me why the following is so:

I can buy worldwide Navionics charts - i.e every single chart I will ever need for the IPAD/Inavx via x-traverse for about $1,000 USD - but to purchase the same worldwide navionics charts for use on a PC using, say, PolarNavy, then it is going to cost me $6,500 USD (or 5,000 Euro) via Chartworld.

I mean - WTF is this all about?

Note: I am fairly new to electronic charting software so maybe this is something all you experienced PC and/or IPAD navigators have accepted - but I just don't understand the huge discrepancy.

And, I guess it means I am going to use Inavx on an IPAD as my plotter - I can't justify the price of navionics charts for use on PC.
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Old 26-10-2012, 23:37   #2
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Re: Navionics - why?

Navionics has different pricing for different platforms (i.e. dedicated Chart plotter versus Mac/PC versus iPad versus iPhone). I believe Navionics thinking is the iPad or iPhone is less capable than the dedicated chart plotter or PC/Mac. Chartworld prices are consistently higher than other sources so while PolarNavy may seem like a good value, however once you look into the cost of charts it becomes much less so.
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Old 26-10-2012, 23:45   #3
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Re: Navionics - why?

I agree it's crazy. What should happen is you buy the charts and they should be available for ALL platforms. PC, iPad, iPhone.


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Old 27-10-2012, 00:18   #4
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Re: Navionics - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPSNavX View Post
Navionics has different pricing for different platforms (i.e. dedicated Chart plotter versus Mac/PC versus iPad versus iPhone). I believe Navionics thinking is the iPad or iPhone is less capable than the dedicated chart plotter or PC/Mac. Chartworld prices are consistently higher than other sources so while PolarNavy may seem like a good value, however once you look into the cost of charts it becomes much less so.
With all due respect, and I see you have a commercial interest so please don't take this the to heart - but I think it that it one extremely WEAK argument as to the price difference.

To me it is nothing more than a giant rip off.

And I don't want to pick on PolarNavy exclusively - because all the PC based Nav software (of which there are many) including PolarNavy do give you some free chart coverage - but chart coverage for rest of the world for any PC based nav software is a bloody rip off.

The only thing that bugs me about Ipad is the sunlight viewing is not so good - but I see from doing a few searches on this froum that is a well known weakness of Ipad for navigation - and really about the only weakness overall that I can see.

Others may feel different.
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Old 27-10-2012, 00:30   #5
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Re: Navionics - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPSNavX View Post
Navionics has different pricing for different platforms (i.e. dedicated Chart plotter versus Mac/PC versus iPad versus iPhone). I believe Navionics thinking is the iPad or iPhone is less capable than the dedicated chart plotter or PC/Mac. Chartworld prices are consistently higher than other sources so while PolarNavy may seem like a good value, however once you look into the cost of charts it becomes much less so.
Didn't read your reply properly at first - yes agree that once you look into the cost of charts for PolarNavy then it is hard to justify it's worth. But as I said in my previous reply, I don't just want to pick on PolarNavy because as I said, ALL the other PC based software providers are in the same boat when it comes to the cost of purchasing charts beyond what you get free.
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Old 27-10-2012, 00:54   #6
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Re: Navionics - why?

Electronic charts are coming down very rapidly in price. The market is changing so quickly that there are still some very expensive electronic charting systems in the market place.

For a long distance cruising the charts can be very significant expense. Previously cruising boats often carried charts with poor detail because with the short time they spend in any one place, it's hard to justify the costs of better charts.
The cheap electronic charts have changed that.

Navionics or the iPad is good value. All of Europe is less than $100. There are lots of cheap (and free) maps available for PC. Go over the open CPN forum on this site and you find lots of options.
Electronic charts for the iPad or PC can be directly downloaded from the Internet, so don't buy more than you need. If you wait until your ready to cruise an area, the charts will be more up to date and are likely to be cheaper as well.
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:11   #7
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Re: Navionics - why?

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Originally Posted by Kiwi399 View Post
I mean - WTF is this all about?
+1. I recently broke down and bought a nice Simrad NSS7 plotter, but with the cost of Navionics, I'll stick with OpenCPN on my PC. I use the plotter for radar display and AP head.
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:25   #8
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Re: Navionics - why?

It's intellectual property and it's very common for the usage license costs to reflect the allowed usage, based on the idea, some uses have more value than other uses.

It's basic supply and demand - as an above post indicated, making a chart available as a phone app is different from using the same chart a bit differently on a dedicated chart plotter.

Since intellectual property rights are more about compensating the producer for their effort than the cost of production per unit, the more usage rights a company can sell, the cheaper they can offer it. Of course, as with everything, the price of the competition also matters.

Consider that many phone and tablet apps, cost much, much less than comparable stand alone software programs.
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:26   #9
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Re: Navionics - why?

What do you fail to understand about The "It's for a Boat" pricing model. Just be glad you're not in the "It's for an Airplane" pricing model.
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:47   #10
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Re: Navionics - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nautical62 View Post
It's intellectual property and it's very common for the usage license costs to reflect the allowed usage, based on the idea, some uses have more value than other uses.

It's basic supply and demand - as an above post indicated, making a chart available as a phone app is different from using the same chart a bit differently on a dedicated chart plotter.

Since intellectual property rights are more about compensating the producer for their effort than the cost of production per unit, the more usage rights a company can sell, the cheaper they can offer it. Of course, as with everything, the price of the competition also matters.

Consider that many phone and tablet apps, cost much, much less than comparable stand alone software programs.
In some cases it is intellectual property, but not in all cases. In the US for instance they get their data absolutely free from the government. What they have got is an agreement with the system manufacturers that their systems will only use free data encoded in a proprietary format. That is why plotters can only use data from specific suppliers in specific formats. For instance, my chaqrtplotter uses only the cmap-NT format for which I pay $200 or there abouts for public data covering a relatively small area and always out of date. I'm sure my chartplotter manufacturer gets a piece of every cmap card I buy. The makers of cmap cards have even come up with a better scam. They change the coverage areas of the charts provided on a specific chip so if you send one in for an update you loose some chart coverage and to get it back you get to spend another $200. It's a bit like the PC printer market and ink cartridges. They can sell you the printer cheap because they keep their hand in your wallet as long as you own the printer through the sale of ink cartridges. The same is true for the chartplotter business, they keep their hand in your wallet for 10 years or more selling you data cartridges with outdated charts. The difference with chartplotters is that they figured out that they don't have to sell them cheap and can make money at both ends.
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:02   #11
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Re: Navionics - why?

It goes to show what a good thing competition is for the consumer.
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:06   #12
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Re: Navionics - why?

I sometimes question the supposed profit maximization formulas that the chart companies use. I think they have priced much of their products out of the market. If they were to lower prices enough, I think that they would make more $$$. It seems that the concept of the velocity of money is unknown to them.

I wonder how many people would pay $1000 for a complete set of electronic charts of the world, including Platinum data (or whatever their best stuff is called) whenever available. Then charge perhaps $100 a year after that for updates, with crowd-sourcing data included . I know I would.

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Old 28-10-2012, 10:28   #13
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Re: Navionics - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by witzgall View Post
I wonder how many people would pay $1000 for a complete set of electronic charts of the world, including Platinum data (or whatever their best stuff is called) whenever available. Then charge perhaps $100 a year after that for updates, with crowd-sourcing data included . I know I would.

Chris
Chris

Navionics is already doing something similar.... When you buy a chip, they provide free updates for one year. All you do is plug the chart chip into an internet based computer and update it. You can do it as often as you like and teh chart updates are extracted from the Local Notice to Mariners.

The also have free software program that downloads the charts to you currently own to a reader on your laptop of computer. They allow you to do this to 4 different computers.

The software is a little clunky, but the nice thing is that the software accepts "Community Imput". So anyone with the software can add commments, waypoints or a list of other items to the chart and share it with everyone who has the software.

The software also lets you make routes or waypoints, save them to a SD card and upload them to you chart.

The link for this is:
Save 50% on chart update | Navionics
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:42   #14
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Re: Navionics - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by witzgall View Post
I sometimes question the supposed profit maximization formulas that the chart companies use. I think they have priced much of their products out of the market. If they were to lower prices enough, I think that they would make more $$$. It seems that the concept of the velocity of money is unknown to them.

I wonder how many people would pay $1000 for a complete set of electronic charts of the world, including Platinum data (or whatever their best stuff is called) whenever available. Then charge perhaps $100 a year after that for updates, with crowd-sourcing data included . I know I would.

Chris

Chrtis
I think $1000 for the world sounds like a very good deal. Am planning my dream cruise to Europe, the Med and some of the canals so started researching charts. Started at dealers for the British Admiralty charts and very quickly added up to $5-$6000 for coastal and harbor charts and I was just getting started. Really, if you planned a European cruise to include Ireland and the British Isles, a little of Scandinavia, down the Atlantic coast to Gibraltar and most of the Med to Greece you could spend $10-$15,000 for a complete set of charts. Ridiculous!!!

So, as much as I would hate to rely on a single source for navigation and that source not exactly the sturdiest or most useful device for the job, I think at this time the Navionics charts for an iPad is the affordable option. Maybe buy 4-5 iPads for backups.

Is there a way to output the video signal of an iPad to an external display of some sort? I have a daylight viewable VGA monitor I plan to use in the cockpit but don't know how to interface that to an iPad.
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:45   #15
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Re: Navionics - why?

Yes, they have half of the equation. Now they just need to make the charts designed for the plotters to be affordable for cruisers that venture outside of their "Home" waters.

Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
Chris

Navionics is already doing something similar.... When you buy a chip, they provide free updates for one year. All you do is plug the chart chip into an internet based computer and update it. You can do it as often as you like and teh chart updates are extracted from the Local Notice to Mariners.

The also have free software program that downloads the charts to you currently own to a reader on your laptop of computer. They allow you to do this to 4 different computers.

The software is a little clunky, but the nice thing is that the software accepts "Community Imput". So anyone with the software can add commments, waypoints or a list of other items to the chart and share it with everyone who has the software.

The software also lets you make routes or waypoints, save them to a SD card and upload them to you chart.

The link for this is:
Save 50% on chart update | Navionics
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