Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-11-2014, 02:50   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 31
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

[QUOTE=bcn;1681583]I would be interested to learn more about this. Are the findings available (in English perhaps)?

No only in swedish but use Google translate and you will get the most out of it.

http://www.dagensbatliv.se/kan-man-lita-pa-navionics-kartografi
http://www.dagensbatliv.se/sjokort/navionics-lanserar-nya-svenska-sjokort
http://www.dagensbatliv.se/sjokort/hydrographicas-nyheter-2014
http://www.dagensbatliv.se/sjokort/transas-sjokort-nu-med-hydrographica
http://www.dagensbatliv.se/sjokort/okanda-grund-en-fortsatt-succe
http://www.dagensbatliv.se/sjokort/seapilot-for-android
http://www.dagensbatliv.se/sjokort/navionics-digitala-sjokort-far-rejalt-stryk-av-alandia
http://www.dagensbatliv.se/sjokort/kan-vi-lita-pa-digitala-sjokort


It looks that the standard and the related RTCM 10900.5, RTCM Standard for Electronic Chart Systems (ECS) are not in public domain - you have to pay if you want to learn what they are about. 60$
Perhaps common when you just ask Commercial producers.


The IEC standard is open on this site:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/83862329/IEC-62376-CD-v60

Are the weather and AIS data via Wifi documented and is there access for third parties?

I wonder what it would take to make OpenCPN compliant.
Perhaps it is already, but as the standard is not in public domain.....

It´s impossible to make OpenCpn compliant because thers no official Company behind.
The authorities GST (Geodatastyrelsen) state:

Plotter producers must only sell plotters with official digital chart, produced by hydrographic authorities.
The software to be used for viewing the maps must be certified by a classification society - approved by the GST.
It should not be possible to buy charts without also subscribe to updates from GST.
Users should not be able to choose how often the charts updated. It makes GST.


The AIS data with weather ect. is also a part of the aggrement comming from officiel AIS stations.
From those stations comes also virtuel boyons ect.


Are these reports available? In English perhaps?

No they are in a power-point presentation i Danish, but can be translated with Google translater.


I would expect that the underlying charts or cell are in S-57 format and the data you receive are in a private eSENC format, so only usable with Seapilot on a specific hardware (iPad).

So we have something like OpenCPN -S-63/S-57- compliant on an iPAD

Seapilot and other comming products will be with their own SENC format.
It´s impossible to take out charts and updates.


Do you know where the charts are sourced from?

The charts comes from each countries official offices as S-57 data used in "-63 format throu Primar to wessels, but to another price.

Info: 7,50 Dkr = aprox 1€

Would be interested to learn more especially in the context of ENCs as primary media of navigation for Non-SOLAS vessels.
Any contacts? If you think it would be more adequate PM me.

Right now only Seapilot meet the standard. The update vary from each country from 24H to two times a year, depending on administrations decisions.

Executive Board of the GST has the topic on their agenda.
Before the decision can be announced to leisure organizations and their members, then GST be sure that the service will be implemented in practice - ie GST must have at least signed a distribution contract with one company. It will of course not be very smart to advertise hydrographic service official if leisure sailors in practice will not be able to start using it.
When directors have taken the important decision, then GST's task then be to ensure that one or more companies are looking to become a distributor of hydrographic service and contracts with the concluded. Then there will be a press releases etc. informing the service introduction at a given time.

Harding
__________________

__________________
Harding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 03:05   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 31
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Harding-
The gentlemen from Navionics seems either confused, or perhaps, mistranslated.
""By common practice a product is considered very good when it has less than 1% failure rate, "
Let's throw out a number, without citing any source for it? That 1% failure rate is considered good by who? Him? Would you accept 1% of jet airfract, or passenger cars, spontaneously combusting as good? Would you accept a 1% death rate from hospital acquired diseases as "good" ?
This sounds like a straw man, to me.

"which means 99% accuracy."
Which means what? How does a failure rate all of a sudden become "accuracy" ? The two are totally different. I feel like I'm hearing a carnival barker tell me all about how easy it will be to win a prize.

"A product with 99.999% accuracy is considered closer to science fiction than to reality."
Ah, no actually. Whether one is dealing with accuracy, or failure rates, "five nines" "six nines" and even "nine nines" are all considered normal in different industries. They are not closer to science fiction, they are simple and longstanding realities in some businesses and activities.

In the "marine charting" businesses, pretty much all of the baseline information comes from government hydrographic offices. If an individual vendor *simply* copies that information without adding any errors, they're doing a "perfect" job. They can't do any better than 100% fidelity to the source data. But they can easily perform at 100%.
As to the source data itself, well? Even the USN sometimes claims (claims) they've run a submarine into a new and uncharted mountain, sure. That's why mariners are encouraged to report errors and submit hydrographic information when it is available.

The old AT&T/Western Electric phone system in the US was a marvel to the world, because it simply worked "all" the time. You could hammer nails with the basic black rotary WE phones and a 20-year old phone was common. You picked up the handset and got dialtone "every" minute of every day all year long, for years at a stretch.

Today's cell phone systems? "Can you hear me now?!" is accepted as normal. Nowhere near five nines, let alone nine nines, in any way.

But for resellers (really) of government charting information? One would think a 100% accuracy and reliability rate would be a fairly easy target to aim for. Not in the source data, because they're not in control of that. But in faithfully presenting that data.
See the text written in swedish and English:

Kan man lita p? Navionics?kartografi? - DagensB?tliv.se

They also highlight that they have purchased cartographic information from the Maritime Authority of about a year back, but the agreement is not signed until 6 months later.
When incorporated a clause in the agreement can Sjöfartsverket not comment on whether Navionics cartography really buys from the Maritime Authority or not.
The question is, buying the data from the Swedish Maritime Administration or say it just to counter the Garmin and BlueChart? Garmin and BlueChart uses spring 2011 S57 data to their charts.

Sailors only need the most correct, and they only come from official administrations.

Apps from Navionics has only white areas for Denmark.

Harding
__________________

__________________
Harding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 03:29   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jupiter FL
Boat: temporarily boatless...
Posts: 723
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Really? Oh, well then, that makes it all OK.
__________________
pete33458 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 07:02   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 31
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Remember... It not just rocks.. Its sandbars, channels and wrecks... Those do move... Sometimes they move often..

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Yes you focus on the point.

A chart is an updated navigation aid not a precision instrument.
The nautical publications (M.) and local port authorities may disclose further dynamic sandbars, currents, depths, buoys ect.
Buoys are badly placed.

It´s a question on dynamic sea floor.
In areas with sand formed as a result of strong currents and waves sand corresponding to dunes.
These dunes can reach an extent of several meters from top to bottom and with lengths of several hundred meters.
In an area of only 0.3 meters may the next year be greater than 3 meters water depth, or vice versa.

In Denmark, approx .: 1200 fixes annually.
In Sweden, there are approximately .: 2700 fixes annually.
In Norway, the Mariners in 2013 informed 1,533 new stone within 3 meters curve. In the year 2014 to September, 380 stones found.

Therefore it´s important automaticaly to receive updates as soon as possible in charts in questions.
In the meantime the autorities make virtual beacons - markings that are only found in AIS, which can be seen on the ships' information screens.

Many computer freeks think that they can solve the task using free programs like. OpenCpn and a free approach to the charts and updates. This is not possible and will not be accepted by the authorities.
The freeks are not representative of yachtsman navigation.

When I speech in lecture around in saling Clubs, about the subject. Lots of sailors wake up when i compare their sailing using Commercial plotters with: "You are sailing by using a ESSO chart, the blue is Water... on your chart the white area is unknown to you about what is underneath and Theres a lot of faults in the drawing.
Never trust those products, they are old and outdated.

The vision in BlueChart g2 Vision from Garmin with their features for Automatic routeplanning and other grafic speciallities do not meet what underneat the surface of Water. theres a lot of leave out factors.

The left part of our brain are corrective with: User logic? Detail oriented? Facts controls? Words and language? Present and past? Mathematics and research? Can understand? When? Recognize? Order / pattern perception? Do thing's name? Of reality based? Creates strategies? Practical? Sure?

And the right are corrective with: User feelings? "Big picture" oriented? The imagination controls? Symbols and images? Present and future? Philosophy and religion? Can "catch it" (Eg. Meaning)? Do you believe? Is grateful? Spatial perception? Know the functions of things? Imagination based? Can imagine the possibilities? Impulsive? taking chances.

"Human factors" refers to the wide range of issues that affect us and govern how people perform tasks include under stress.
Study on "human factors" provides a scientific knowledge of the human body and mind, to obtain a better insight and understanding human capabilities and limitations, to achieve the best possible fit between people and the systems used. This knowledge, "human factors" can be used to reduce the risk of errors while building more fault-tolerant and therefore more resilient systems.

Human factors are used in funny chartplotters to give the user the feeling of full control, acting as he was captain on a supertanker, by giving him imaginated pictures from a mat. program.
By buying only the 10 meter courve an interpolate to the coastline and introduce homemade Sonar charts to the user, is far away from navigation.

For pleasure craft, where there are no formal requirements for training, and especially not in using plotters genetic og with product course, one must be aware that there must always be a captain on board. This will, where appropriate, be held accountable for violations of maritime regulation. If a case comes to court, it will be a crucial point if you have used official and updated nautical charts.

The responsibility for safe navigation has not moved, it lies with the skipper, the responsible navigator aboard.

Harding
__________________
Harding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 08:37   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Boat: Morgan 44 CC
Posts: 65
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

My Caribbean and S. Amer version Navionics on Android stopped working a few weeks ago after an auto update. The cross hairs disappeared, so you could not read lat long or query objects. Maybe it had other issues, too. I cannot remember.

Web support recommended a re-install for the missing cross hairs issue.

I uninstalled and then noticed the apps were gone from Google Play.

I switched to My Apps on Google Play (instead of just searching) and found it there, reinstalled, and now it is ok.

BTW, Overall a ok app on-the-water chart plotter, but I cannot get it to import routes and waypoints .gpx. Never have been able to. Pretty it will not do it. They want to keep all your data on their cloud. That part is really bad - a real show stopper to being a great app instead of a just-ok app.

I noticed their tide tables are about 1 hour different than (ahead of) NOAA in the Leeward Islands. I am still wondering which is right?

Maybe somebody knows. NOAA is probably not that accurate in the Lesser Antilles.

Finally I really wished OpenCPN just had an executable app for Android on Google Play (no silly rooting my machine, and Ubuntu compiling with who-knows-what drivers for the whatever-they-might-be GPS chips on my tablet, with other assorted other class libraries which may or may not work... way too geeky for me - don't wanna brick my Samsung tab playing around with that - not my idea of fun).

Please, we just need OpenCPN on Android so everybody can just use it on their tablets. We would all be very grateful.
__________________
derfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 08:40   #51
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 2,751
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Quote:
Originally Posted by derfy View Post

Finally I really wished OpenCPN just had an executable app for Android on Google Play (no silly rooting my machine, and Ubuntu compiling with who-knows-what drivers for the whatever-they-might-be GPS chips on my tablet, with other assorted other class libraries which may or may not work... way too geeky for me - don't wanna brick my Samsung tab playing around with that - not my idea of fun).

Please, we just need OpenCPN on Android so everybody can just use it on their tablets. We would all be very grateful.
Development is underway, but in an early stage still. Just keep an eye on the OCPN forum.

bcn
__________________
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 09:23   #52
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 2,751
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Harding,

there is a presentation of GST about the pilot study:
https://www.iho.int/mtg_docs/rhc/NHC...e%20Course.pdf

Quote:
• Using an tablet-PC as a portable chart plotter with an app developed by Seapilot AB and navigation on ENCs from DGA and SMA in SENC format. AIS data from national AIS server. Real time weather data from 60 Swedish weather stations and 5 days local weather forecast incl. 1-hours intervals from Meteogroup.

• The app to meet the majority of items of standard IEC 62376
Will we call this "a little bit pregnant"?
Is the IEC 62376 homologation documented anywhere?


Quote:
It´s impossible to make OpenCpn compliant because thers no official Company behind.
The authorities GST (Geodatastyrelsen) state:

Plotter producers must only sell plotters with official digital chart, produced by hydrographic authorities.
The software to be used for viewing the maps must be certified by a classification society - approved by the GST.
It should not be possible to buy charts without also subscribe to updates from GST.
Users should not be able to choose how often the charts updated. It makes GST.
Don't worry - in case we want to resolve this we will have a solid solution

There is another argument from you that I would like to call a misunderstanding:

Quote:
Many computer freeks think that they can solve the task using free programs like. OpenCpn and a free approach to the charts and updates. This is not possible and will not be accepted by the authorities.
The freeks are not representative of yachtsman navigation.
Free =/= "Freak"
Free is about how to develop and to distribute software.
The commitment of a developer community can sometimes be bigger than that of a company with a "fire & forget" product. There is no guarantee, but a record to have a look at. Just visit the neighbor forum.

With a worldwide user community > 200.000 we are worried how to get up-to-date and correct chart material for our users.
Not a deal in the US, as you know the S-57 charts are free. NZ has free raster charts. And there are the InlandENCs. And then?

Or why do you think we created - the working - S-63 plug-in?
And why do you think we are debating with the HOs to get a pricing for charts that is in line with the leisure market, different from SOLAS vessels that earn money (well, they are thought to earn money) navigating?

The GST approach is interesting and that is why we are curious about it.
We would very happily add our grain of salt to this process.

There are a lot of questions when it comes to get a "homologated product as primary mean of navigation" for the leisure or Non-SOLAS world.
Btw.: Using an iPad as such I have my concerns.....
And a mobile phone even more. How to you navigate with a 4.3" screen?
The IEC 62376 states even for a Class "C" device - and I suppose this has been the yardstick - a minimum screen size of 101x101mm.

Boy: we are serious about safety at sea

Hubert
__________________
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 12:27   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 31
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

[QUOTE=bcn;1682400]Harding,

there is a presentation of GST about the pilot study:
https://www.iho.int/mtg_docs/rhc/NHC...e%20Course.pdf

The link seems to be bad:

This website's security certificate was not issued by a certificate authority that is trusted.

This website's security certificate has expired or is not yet valid.

Problems with safety certificate may be due to an attempt to fool you or intercept data you send to the server.


Will we call this "a little bit pregnant"?
Is the IEC 62376 homologation documented anywhere?

All IEC´s you can find from IMO.
IMO | Member States


Don't worry - in case we want to resolve this we will have a solid solution

There is another argument from you that I would like to call a misunderstanding:



Free =/= "Freak"
Free is about how to develop and to distribute software.
The commitment of a developer community can sometimes be bigger than that of a company with a "fire & forget" product. There is no guarantee, but a record to have a look at. Just visit the neighbor forum.

With a worldwide user community > 200.000 we are worried how to get up-to-date and correct chart material for our users.
Not a deal in the US, as you know the S-57 charts are free. NZ has free raster charts. And there are the InlandENCs. And then?

Or why do you think we created - the working - S-63 plug-in?
And why do you think we are debating with the HOs to get a pricing for charts that is in line with the leisure market, different from SOLAS vessels that earn money (well, they are thought to earn money) navigating?

You can buy all the charts you want but
The software to be used for viewing the maps must be certified by a classification society - approved by the GST.
It should not be possible to buy charts without also subscribe to updates from GST.
Users should not be able to choose how often the charts updated. It makes GST.

If OpenCpn can match that everything is OK, but where is the owner. Dave do not want to act so.


The GST approach is interesting and that is why we are curious about it.
We would very happily add our grain of salt to this process.

There are a lot of questions when it comes to get a "homologated product as primary mean of navigation" for the leisure or Non-SOLAS world.
Btw.: Using an iPad as such I have my concerns.....
And a mobile phone even more. How to you navigate with a 4.3" screen?
The IEC 62376 states even for a Class "C" device - and I suppose this has been the yardstick - a minimum screen size of 101x101mm.

If the memberstates of maritime navigation in IMO can classify the terms in IEC 62376 as a standard for maritime navigation, I feel that it is a far higher standard than what OpenCpn can show.
OpenCpn is an eye-opener to chartproblems not a ultimate or definitive answer to solving navigation problems.

Boy: we are serious about safety at sea

Serousity about safety is to use the official updateded charts from the sources.
Nothing more!
If OpenCpn can fullfil that, so what about seeks to become a distributor of hydrographic service.

Harding
__________________
Harding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 13:03   #54
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 2,751
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Bit difficult to answer when don't use the quote functionality.

Just use "quote" and then within your post you can embrace the parts you would like to quote with "[ QUOTE] --thats the start of a Quotation and [ /QUOTE]" - without the blank after the [

The link is ok, it's just that the IHO has a problem with its certificate.
No problem. Tell your browser to ignore and go ahead.

The document states that the Seapilot SW is not fully IEC 62376 compliant - and this would be ok for me for a pilot test.
The issue is that you stated that this software was the only one to be compliant and therefore has been chosen for the pilot test.
So my question: where is the homologation document. I would like to see it if a homologation has been taken place.

Quote:
You can buy all the charts you want but
The software to be used for viewing the maps must be certified by a classification society - approved by the GST.
It should not be possible to buy charts without also subscribe to updates from GST.
Users should not be able to choose how often the charts updated. It makes GST.

If OpenCpn can match that everything is OK, but where is the owner. Dave do not want to act so.
This has been addressed in the former post. In the S-63 case we already presented the solution - you have to be an OEM of IHO in order to be able to work with S-63 material. And we are such.

Quote:
Serousity about safety is to use the official updateded charts from the sources.
Nothing more!
If OpenCpn can fullfil that, so what about seeks to become a distributor of hydrographic service.
What we are chasing for is a reasonable access to up-to-date and official charts.
Conditions and price.
And we don't strive to be another Garmin, Jeppesen or Navionics. They can rest in peace. The Value added retailers as they are quoted have their place.
They can present their chart with add-ons or in 3D. Their playground.

But there are sailors that just need plain S-57/S-63 charts (S-100 in some far future) from the HOs.

And perhaps applications that are serving as "primary means of navigation"

Quote:
If the memberstates of maritime navigation in IMO can classify the terms in IEC 62376 as a standard for maritime navigation, I feel that it is a far higher standard than what OpenCpn can show.
OpenCpn is an eye-opener to chartproblems not a ultimate or definitive answer to solving navigation problems.
I will be happy to go with you through the standard having a look where OpenCPN complies and where not, what is applicable for leisure crafts and how other software fits in this.

Hubert
__________________
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 13:08   #55
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Unlike a military navigation system, where you may be streaming multispectral imaging (visible and IR as a start) and live radar and integrating all of that with the most recent satellite generated topographical base maps....We civilian sailors are not always so concerned about the *currency* of our charts, as compared to the accuracy, which was of one snapshot in time.


Sure, rocks move, and sometimes people even move them. Sandbars form, but if you don't have local knowledge and stakes, no chart is ever current enough for those.


All of which is why navigation requires a little more knowledge and intelligence than just "I can read a map". Perhaps in another 50 years Google Wet will give us all the live interactive up to the minute marine charting that includes every beer can some bozo threw overboard last night. Still won't matter in lots of places.


Tempest in a teapot, for some of us at least some of the time.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2014, 18:40   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,908
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Quote:
Originally Posted by derfy View Post
My Caribbean and S. Amer version Navionics on Android stopped working a few weeks ago after an auto update. The cross hairs disappeared, so you could not read lat long or query objects. Maybe it had other issues, too. I cannot remember.
....
Interesting, mine (same area of coverage) just updated yesterday and still seems to be working fine.
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2014, 00:51   #57
Registered User
 
TeddyDiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch
Posts: 1,826
Images: 2
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

I have other tab running older versions of Europe and Caribien (auto update off) and other one with latest version off Europe. Everything running fine and uploading charts if I choose to..
__________________
TeddyDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2014, 08:49   #58
Registered User
 
Wrong's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,702
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Quote:
Finally I really wished OpenCPN just had an executable app for Android on Google Play (no silly rooting my machine, and Ubuntu compiling with who-knows-what drivers for the whatever-they-might-be GPS chips on my tablet, with other assorted other class libraries which may or may not work... way too geeky for me - don't wanna brick my Samsung tab playing around with that - not my idea of fun).

Please, we just need OpenCPN on Android so everybody can just use it on their tablets. We would all be very grateful.
There are users of OpenCPN on their android devices who were at one time as reluctant as you are to root their androids. Ironically, some of them are now the most active advocates of using OpenCPN on androids, frequently offering encouraging words for others to give it a go.

Nothing about rooting your device and following instructions that involve mostly copying and pasting commands into an android terminal are difficult. And, the free android applications available from Google Play automatically do the rest, from installing linux to enabling the use of gps in OpenCPN.

While an android OpenCPN application will eventually be available, it may still be necessary to root the device. This depends upon whether or not charts can be made accessible to OpenCPN without taking this step...

As far as charts are concerned, nothing is ever going to be as important as using your eyes and ears to identify hazards. Call me lucky if you will, but I have sailed the better part of two global circumnavigations using 'old' CM93 charts most everywhere I've sailed and without encountering problems I couldn't SEE. More important than chart accuracy is your plan. When to chance an approach or sail through a particular area at night? Are other navigational aids available, such as lights or visible land marks? Updated or not, charts have their limits.
__________________
Wrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2014, 12:07   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 31
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

The link is a short form from the report I have in Danish. The complete report has 31 pages, so you miss details.
I also have the PowerPoint from the presentation to Safe Cours project.
Even without a 100% compliance Seapilot was the only product to meet the needed demand for the test.

Please note the text in slide 15:
National regulations and guidelines
EN 62376 standard as a mutual ECS

basis
National ENC folios and pricing

Certification of ECS software

and slide 8:

The test software has proven to be a relevant and practical
alternative that fulfil the leisure craft navigators needs in daylight,
evening twilight and by night.
The majority of the testpilots have expressed satisfaction with the

IHO S52 presentation.
The ”on-the-fly” updating method via internet connectivity has

proven to be safe and technical reliable in Danish Waters.

Slide 13 too:

European standard EN 62376 with additional national requirements to be
applied if the ECS is used as primary means of navigation.
Prerequisite that ECS software have been certified by a notified body.

IHO S63 encryption / SENC encryption.

Frequency of updates of the Danish ENCs when used for non-commercial

navigation.
Slide 14:

Distributor contract to be developed.
National ENC delivery mechanisme to be established.

Folios of Danish ENCs to be decided.

Pricing and subscription periods for the ENC folios to be decided.

Existing licensing policy to be revised.

Recommendations to be forwarded to the DMA Board and DGA Board at the
end of September 2014.
Why can OpenCon not meet thees requirements???
Can OpenCpn be updated to meet the future requirements incl. Flag State approval?:
E-navigation must be secured behind the sound login in line with, for example. NemId and the differentiation of what information the different stakeholders have access to.
The reception can be customized with a filter so the warnings are current for the specific ship on the planned route. It excludes human error by automatically transferring information.
Some systems can already receive warnings especially ipad / tablet and smart phones.
It aims to create additional channels as AIS channels will not be overloaded with a wealth of additional data.
SFS is in the process of applying for EU funds to create a platform on the Internet - that is, independently and without the ECDISS - where all the relevant information can be retrieved.
That the sailors could avail of with: navigation warnings, weather reports, information on ports and many other details that are continually updated.
There is integration of information directly on the display. When the route is subject to the relevant information on weather, water levels, currents and wave height retrieved continuously, and current forecasts are displayed along the route - for the time the boat will actually be in the position.
The system is user-controlled with filters for the weather information and warnings to pop up on the screen.
It´s not a question of sailors meening about what they need, but the demand from the maritime authorities to sailors.
Can OpenCpn meet the future changes? Please comment!
Harding


Quote:
Originally Posted by bcn View Post
Bit difficult to answer when don't use the quote functionality.

Just use "quote" and then within your post you can embrace the parts you would like to quote with "[ QUOTE] --thats the start of a Quotation and [ /QUOTE]" - without the blank after the [

The link is ok, it's just that the IHO has a problem with its certificate.
No problem. Tell your browser to ignore and go ahead.

The document states that the Seapilot SW is not fully IEC 62376 compliant - and this would be ok for me for a pilot test.
The issue is that you stated that this software was the only one to be compliant and therefore has been chosen for the pilot test.
So my question: where is the homologation document. I would like to see it if a homologation has been taken place.



This has been addressed in the former post. In the S-63 case we already presented the solution - you have to be an OEM of IHO in order to be able to work with S-63 material. And we are such.



What we are chasing for is a reasonable access to up-to-date and official charts.
Conditions and price.
And we don't strive to be another Garmin, Jeppesen or Navionics. They can rest in peace. The Value added retailers as they are quoted have their place.
They can present their chart with add-ons or in 3D. Their playground.

But there are sailors that just need plain S-57/S-63 charts (S-100 in some far future) from the HOs.

And perhaps applications that are serving as "primary means of navigation"



I will be happy to go with you through the standard having a look where OpenCPN complies and where not, what is applicable for leisure crafts and how other software fits in this.

Hubert
__________________
Harding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2014, 13:38   #60
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 2,751
Re: Navionics pull software from Google Play Store?

Harding,


why do you shout?

We do hear you.....

- As far as I know nobody but Seapilot from the companies asked offered to participate in the pilot test.

- This software as it comes and tested does not comply with the standards (and this has not been requested, the IEC standard is just not applicable. EN 62376 is a buzz word in this context I learnt in the meantime)
OpenCPN would cover the shown features (and more). S-57 and the S-63 charts are working flawlessly. Updates etc... Raster charts as well of course.

OpenCPN does support extended AIS messages - just have a look at the online documentation - OpenCPN User Manual | Official OpenCPN Homepage
Internet access via TCP/IP or UDP plus re-routing for a boat network is in place -
WiFi, UMTS, Bluetooth all in place.
Have a look at the GRIB plug-in. Overlays of weather or other information is no deal for OpenCPN.
Tablets and a myriad of other devices are working with this open solution.
OpenCPN users can select if they want from Mac, Windows, Linux. 4.3" or 30" screens.
4W consumption or 120Watt - It's up to the user and the power limitations he has. AP output - where is this in the pilot test?

- A standard will have to be (re)defined for leisure boats and Non-SOLAS vessels. Now this is the interesting point:
will this permit open hardware and system software and on top the ECS plus affordable and up-to-date charts?

Or closed SENCs, hardware approved by ... ? Sold at which price point by?
Just downscaling the SOLAS vessel approach will perhaps not be the solution that benefits sailors.

In relation with the "Flag state approval" i.e. adopting the IEC standard for leisure boats:
It does not exist right now but we would happy to discuss what should be the most open-minded solutions and standards.

If GST wants to be the spearhead of the process the first step should be to put intentions, ideas, worries and possible solutions on the table and discuss those.
Technical aspects and then the derived solutions for implementations (distribution etc.).

In case you have the contacts:
Just tell them we are here to be proactive. "ECS as primary mean of navigation for leisure boats" should to be designed as practical as possible. We need solutions not just for a region or HO.

Hubert
__________________

__________________
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
google, navionics, software

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To Pull or Not to Pull . . . That Is My Question ! BILLYBYEPOLAR General Sailing Forum 4 12-11-2010 15:26
Turkey Blocks Google Earth & Google Maps MarkJ Europe & Mediterranean 7 04-07-2010 13:30



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.