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View Poll Results: Should navigational aids be discontinued?
Yes! We have GPS and chartplotters now. They just get in the way now! 6 7.50%
No, they are a useful backup to the GPS/Plotter/Microwave/Vibrator thing that blinks at me as I drive the boat. 74 92.50%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 14-06-2011, 12:24   #31
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

You can't be serious!
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Old 14-06-2011, 12:25   #32
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

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Originally Posted by ActiveCaptain View Post
Like the electronic ignition system in your car? Or how about the electronically controlled engines that dominate diesel production today?
Good point...
Not quite sure if its apples for apples....but worth consideration.

In the mean time:
How about stop signs/traffic lights...With the popularity of Nav gadgets in auto's, at one point will we be able to do away with them....maybe gaurd rails would be a better example....no...thats probably a stretch.
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Old 14-06-2011, 12:28   #33
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

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Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
You can't be serious!
Doesn't need to be serious...its late where I am...it only needs to be entertaining!
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Old 14-06-2011, 12:35   #34
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

rofl...lighthouses save lives on west coast--is a second tallest one in world right here and works just fine to keep folks off rocks. navigation aid-- please define--it seems as if the substitute is still a nav aid..LOL..... how do ye 'spect to get anywhere without nagvigating in some manner???? scotty, of beam me upville is a dead and gone man-- took his beamer with him-- so ye gonna has to do some navigatin somehow....or be on the rocks....
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Old 14-06-2011, 12:36   #35
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

So with nav aids gone, everyone going out for a day sail in a Lightning or similar craft will have to haul along a battery and gps or what ever. There are many aids that are pretty far from shore making it more challanging to know exactly where the shoal begins. Throw in set and drift and things get even worse. Physical aids are always going to be needed and saveing a little money, or a lot, is not a good excuse to eliminate them.
If the electronic ignition in my car fails, I'm walking. If my chart plotter fails, at night, in bad weather, with no lighted aids, I could be swimming.
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Old 14-06-2011, 12:37   #36
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

Theres no doubt in my mind there's less navigational marks in the areas of Australias east Coast than there was. Of course thats different to the word 'aids'. There are less aids too... RDF ect has all gone obsolete and those aids have been removed.

Theres a number of sets of Leads where the markers used to be 200 meters apart. If they were being built now I think they might be just 500 meters apart etc.

The photo above of the goose who hit the No3 mark: Did that mark need to be there? Is the '3' a speed sign? If so its not an internationaly recognised speed sign, and too slow for modern vessels. If that mark did not need to be there for navagational reasons then maybe the injured could sue?

A person died here in Grenada in March hiiting a Nav Marker in his dinghy; one in the same month in St Martin hitting a marker. Neither marker was lit. Both markers capable of killing someone.


Continue to reduce the Nav Markers down to what is needed.



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Old 14-06-2011, 12:46   #37
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
So with nav aids gone, everyone going out for a day sail in a Lightning or similar craft will have to haul along a battery and gps or what ever. There are many aids that are pretty far from shore making it more challanging to know exactly where the shoal begins. Throw in set and drift and things get even worse. Physical aids are always going to be needed and saveing a little money, or a lot, is not a good excuse to eliminate them.
If the electronic ignition in my car fails, I'm walking. If my chart plotter fails, at night, in bad weather, with no lighted aids, I could be swimming.
what--ye havent paper charts for backup????? and a flashlite???
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Old 14-06-2011, 12:50   #38
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
rofl...lighthouses save lives on west coast--is a second tallest one in world right here and works just fine to keep folks off rocks. navigation aid-- please define--it seems as if the substitute is still a nav aid..LOL..... how do ye 'spect to get anywhere without nagvigating in some manner???? scotty, of beam me upville is a dead and gone man-- took his beamer with him-- so ye gonna has to do some navigatin somehow....or be on the rocks....
Coast Guard is selling off many lighthouses that are no longer considered necessary.

Government Lighthouses For Sale For $1*•*Real Estate *•*The Mortgage Insider

http://www.examiner.com/life-photos-...eeded-part-two
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Old 14-06-2011, 12:53   #39
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

I have all that stuff, my point is the use of charts are seriously compromised when the lighted markers shown on the chart are not there anymore. My flashlight is not strong enough to light up the reef I'm trying to avoid.
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Old 14-06-2011, 12:59   #40
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

the us govt is not selling off lighthouses in other nations.>LOL...
if your flashlight is not strong enough to see outside cockpit-- get a rechargeable million plus candlepower search/flood light from ace hardware and look at the stuff yer gonna hit.....is less than 20 dollars and lasts thru quite a lot of abuse.
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Old 14-06-2011, 13:02   #41
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
- some temporary markers (like new wreck etc.) are only virtual
- real markers that went missing are temporary replaced by the virtual ones

The thing is that as this happens more often and for years to come, people will get used to it, accept it and real markers will start to disappear.

ciao!
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I think that some folks might want to do so reading / research on the "technological imperative."

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The Technology Imperative states that if a new technology exists, we need it. Logic and business school lessons donít matter.
The Technology Imperative

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Major critics of the pursuit of the technological imperative have been Jacques Ellul and Ivan Illich. Michael Shallis notes that:

The Chinese discovered gunpowder but chose not to develop the gun. We in the West generally accept the notion of the technological imperative which, like natural selection and evolution, inevitably leads where it will and precludes purposeful change, directed progress.
The imperative implies that the invention of a new technique demands its adoption and development, and although there are countless examples of 'useless' inventions that no one wants and which are not developed but fade away, the general tendency has been to pursue possible developments for their own sake. The technological imperative concerns that self-motivated pursuit and implies that it is somehow inevitable... Technology is promoted... as if the idea of the imperative was true.
(Shallis 1984, pp. 64-5).
Technological Determinism: The Technological Imperative
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Old 14-06-2011, 13:11   #42
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

I have used those high powered lights navigating a narrow channel in the past, and they work quite well, but many hazards are below the water and I would feel a little foolish explaining to vessel assist that I couldn't see the reef in my search light beam so I went for it.
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Old 14-06-2011, 14:30   #43
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
I have all that stuff, my point is the use of charts are seriously compromised when the lighted markers shown on the chart are not there anymore. My flashlight is not strong enough to light up the reef I'm trying to avoid.
You could navigate around the reef.
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Old 14-06-2011, 15:33   #44
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

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the us govt is not selling off lighthouses in other nations.>LOL...
if your flashlight is not strong enough to see outside cockpit-- get a rechargeable million plus candlepower search/flood light from ace hardware and look at the stuff yer gonna hit.....is less than 20 dollars and lasts thru quite a lot of abuse.
\
After use wait 20-30 minutes for night vision to return!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 14-06-2011, 15:44   #45
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Re: Navigational aids are a waste of money!

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I have all that stuff, my point is the use of charts are seriously compromised when the lighted markers shown on the chart are not there anymore. My flashlight is not strong enough to light up the reef I'm trying to avoid.
If you need markers to navigate around reefs, you better stay close to home. When you sail to even popular places like the Caribbean, you will find that there are NO MARKERS around the reefs; you are expected to navigate around them using your own knowledge and skills.

The less markers the better I like the place! Go to the San Blas islands in Panama... I have yet to find the first marker there, while there are thousands of reefs and other hidden dangers, all around you.

How do you think the great European explorers made the first charts?

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