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Old 15-08-2011, 02:06   #16
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Re: Navigation in the 0 to 3 fathoms zone.

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Originally Posted by cagney View Post
No, based on your very limited info, there is no way to trust that enough water exist. If you want more "help" than that, you have to be way more verbal about what's going on. Position, what chart, draft of your boat etc, etc.
Thomas
The draft: 2 meter with a tested sounder( helmsperson “1 meter (the famous trolley) full astern, .5, .3, .2, hold your self, .1.) Bang.

The chart: see pictures:
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Old 15-08-2011, 03:07   #17
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Re: Navigation in the 0-3 Fathoms Zone

The paper chart contains the following caution. May be more than 300 round the world cruisers will pass through that region every year. The one who use only the electronic charts of the previous post will leave in bliss. To be noted: the paper chart makes no mention of spot soundings but of unsurveyed area. Some unsurveyed areas on the paper chart are shown on the electronic charts as surveyed. Due to the scale of the paper chart and if no better data is available to the electronic chart makers then the making of electronics charts is the product of learned guesswork. A radar survey of some islands shows that the electronic cartography does not match the radar scans. Much has been written in CF about electronic charting and I tend to agree with Jaden44.

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Bottom line. I do appreciate and enjoy the features of my C-Map electronic chart but recognize that the electronic data has its limitations.
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Old 15-08-2011, 03:43   #18
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Re: Navigation in the 0 to 3 fathoms zone.

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The draft: 2 meter with a tested sounder( helmsperson “1 meter (the famous trolley) full astern, .5, .3, .2, hold your self, .1.) Bang.

The chart: see pictures:
Ok, Ill bite.
I know the area reasonably well. Well as one can when the water is pretty murky most of the time. Not sure why you want to anchor here, when the King River is so close. Anyway I'm guessing a" wind up" as the AUS chart soundings are from charts up to around 1948 with corrections from a few surveys hence.

Information on this chart clearly states...". caution... as these shores are only partially examined seamen must not trust implicitly to the chart".

I would guess that those expecting the electronic versions of this chart to be any better may be sorely disappointed.

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Old 15-08-2011, 04:06   #19
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Re: Navigation in the 0 to 3 fathoms zone.

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A cruising guide describes the place, as “comfortable anchorages exist close to the shore with sand bottom”.
As for the tide is what you get after a day sailing.
Ha, is this from Mr Richards' book of fairy stories, sorry, cruising guide, by any chance?
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Old 15-08-2011, 07:21   #20
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Re: Navigation in the 0-3 Fathoms Zone

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Good idea, does it still work in 22+ Kts wind in a short and steepy swell?
No, but that is not the idea. Would you venture into unknown, shallow waters like that under those conditions? Nothing is perfect under all conditions.
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Old 15-08-2011, 08:23   #21
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Re: Navigation in the 0 to 3 fathoms zone.

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Not sure why you want to anchor here,
The trill of discovery, the exuberant insouciance of youth or the 28 Kts ESE wind who came every night after midnight.

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when the King River is so close.
We went there, our tested sounder found only 3.5 meter C.D. of the charted 3.7 or the 5.0 meter of the cruising guide and the spot was totally exposed to the swell. Having no shovel (try to keep the displacement below 14 tons) we took your advice and turned back.
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Information on this chart clearly states...". caution... as these shores are only partially examined seamen must not trust implicitly to the chart".
Regards.
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corrections from a few surveys hence.
“surveys” or groundings. I guess that where the barges goes you will get a “rep” or a correction otherwise a new unsurveyed area. Will see.

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Ha, is this from Mr Richards' book of fairy stories, sorry, cruising guide, by any chance?
Mr Richard is it the person who saw a light on Orantes reef and make curious mud map and went by dinghy from Popham Bay to the Van Diemen Gulf? Then no it is from an other cruising guide.
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Old 15-08-2011, 08:26   #22
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I have a cheap fishing pole I use for this. Weight with a float attached exactly the draft +1 foot. If you throw the line out and see the float, STOP. Just make sure the weight can sink the float.
With my luck, not only would I snag Markj's shopping cart, but I'd subsequently be nailed by Fish and Game for jigging without a license.
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Old 15-08-2011, 09:13   #23
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Re: Navigation in the 0 to 3 fathoms zone.

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A cruising guide describes the place, as “comfortable anchorages exist close to the shore with sand bottom”.
As for the tide is what you get after a day sailing.
So wherever you are you're going to lose ~8 feet or so. Rough man. I'd park pretty far off in absolutely safe water (depth/swing wise) and then move in later in the day when I could see what's going on and not be exhausted.
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Old 15-08-2011, 09:57   #24
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Re: Navigation in the 0-3 Fathoms Zone

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. Would you venture into unknown, shallow waters like that under those conditions?
Some does it just for the sport of it, by necessity, for professional reason etc. When in Valentia I like to see them coming across the Mountnorris Bay tacking all the way some time facing a nasty swell. They drop anchor open all hatches and recover because they know that tomorrow the sailing will be as hard than the day before and I admire them. Boisterous weather write the late Eric Hiscock when he recall The Stranding off Crocker Island.

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Weather is nice here in Darwin atm and there has been a lot of boats going east this year.
Best wishes
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Old 15-08-2011, 10:25   #25
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Re: Navigation in the 0 to 3 fathoms zone.

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I'd park pretty far off in absolutely safe water (depth/swing wise) and then move in later in the day when I could see what's going on and not be exhausted.
You may be in for a very rolly night without rest. In our case we get more rest if we keep sailing.
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Old 15-08-2011, 10:52   #26
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Re: Navigation in the 0 to 3 fathoms zone.

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I work on a "Shopping Cart Principle"

If sailing in an area so shallow that a shopping cart thrown overboard by some louts (Eric, for example) is going to ruin the keels paint then only sail there with eyes apeeled....

If you don't like the Shopping Cart senario, try coral head, or rock etc.

If there is only 1 meter under the keel I am going dead slow. Dunno what those in the Bahamas do....


Mark
Well... you just look for conch on the bottom and keep the big sail up mon! It's like drwoning... 6 ft is enough to do it....
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Old 15-08-2011, 11:16   #27
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Re: Navigation in the 0-3 Fathoms Zone

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Some does it just for the sport of it, by necessity, for professional reason etc. When in Valentia I like to see them coming across the Mountnorris Bay tacking all the way some time facing a nasty swell. They drop anchor open all hatches and recover because they know that tomorrow the sailing will be as hard than the day before and I admire them. Boisterous weather write the late Eric Hiscock when he recall The Stranding off Crocker Island.
Yes, some do it for any number of reasons, and in those cases, no, my float idea would not work. And I would use other means, mostly stay away. But in other cases mentioned here ("In the Bahamas it's 10' and flat, except where it ain't.") On a nice day where you are unsure, it works a treat.
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Old 15-08-2011, 14:54   #28
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Re: Navigation in the 0-3 Fathoms Zone

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Some does it just for the sport of it, by necessity, for professional reason etc. When in Valentia I like to see them coming across the Mountnorris Bay tacking all the way some time facing a nasty swell. They drop anchor open all hatches and recover because they know that tomorrow the sailing will be as hard than the day before and I admire them. Boisterous weather write the late Eric Hiscock when he recall The Stranding off Crocker Island.

Mmmm, you really love the "rock and rolly" stuff. "Valencia Island" fits the bill in your 30 knt ese.

By the way has any of this helped with your OP.......


Should a mariner be able to trust that enough navigable water exist between the “Open Sea” and a spot sounding of 2 fathoms (3.7 meter) in a charted 0 to 3 fathoms zone? (0 to 5.5 meter zone)

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Old 15-08-2011, 18:45   #29
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Re: Navigation in the 0-3 Fathoms Zone

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By the way has any of this helped with your OP.......
Regards
I did get some point of views. What is yours?
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Old 16-08-2011, 00:42   #30
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Re: Navigation in the 0-3 Fathoms Zone

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I did get some point of views. What is yours?
Ok, I'll restrict my views to the OP.

Yes. However I will qualify this with the proviso that having worked from that particular fathom chart over many years it is surprisingly accurate. However at night I would be running down the lines of soundings to close the coast and certainly not go inshore of the last sounding, until a daylight recky could be made.

One is certainly taking a chance in these remote areas , closing the coast at night.
If the tide is high the chances of clobbering something are certainly reduced while you work out if the anchorage is tenable at low water.
Then again, as my boat draws less than a meter and you appear to require much more the best I can offer is to keep sailing.
Flame away.
Regards.
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