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Old 30-09-2009, 15:04   #16
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...meaning that with regular bulbs currents are higher cables get warmer, wich helps to keep system dryer as opposed with wires for LED where currents are low you dont get same effect. LED light cables are there for more proof to moisture./Harry
Truly, nonsensical, technobabble, bullshti, displaying a astounding ingorance of first principles.
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Old 30-09-2009, 16:58   #17
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The UK magazine PBO did a comparison of LED tricolour lights in the last magazine, and compared those against the standard aquasignal tricolour. The best was the aquasignal LED replacement that just plugs straight into the same fitting.

The NASA LED was the closest in capability to the Aquasignal in all areas except angle of heel, thus was a great option for multihulls. It is also about 10% of the price of the aquasignal.

Orcagreen was a reasonable contender with a better angle capability than NASA, but not so bright (especially in the red sector).
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Old 30-09-2009, 17:09   #18
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Orcagreen - where made? I think I heard a similar name in Brasil. I would not buy any Brasil made stuff for my boat - very, very low quality of workmanship there.

b.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:48   #19
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Orcagreen - where made? .............
Orca Green Marine Technology - LED Lighting From Austin Texas. I have no idea where they are actually made - probably China these days, like most of the other stuff!
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:44   #20
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The UK magazine PBO did a comparison of LED tricolour lights in the last magazine, and compared those against the standard aquasignal tricolour. The best was the aquasignal LED replacement that just plugs straight into the same fitting.

The NASA LED was the closest in capability to the Aquasignal in all areas except angle of heel, thus was a great option for multihulls. It is also about 10% of the price of the aquasignal.

Orcagreen was a reasonable contender with a better angle capability than NASA, but not so bright (especially in the red sector).
That's good information. I am fitting out for world cruising, and I keep delaying the purchase of both LED lights (interior and nav) and RADAR sets, because the advances in these areas are coming thick and fast and I gain nothing by being an "early adopter".

On the other hand, I had no problem buying a wind vane early.
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:02   #21
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LED light market leader is Lopolight Navigation lights LED based info@lopolight.dk tel: +45 3248 5030
US distributor EuroMarine Trading, Inc.. Protypes tested 60000nm.
Correct me if Im wrong./Harry
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:17   #22
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Lopolight costs £300 (just the Tri)
NASA costs £50.

Lopo white and red sectors were the same as the NASA. The green sector was not as bright as the NASA.

The Lopo cut off even earlier on heel and very abruptly compared to the NASA. IMHO neither are really suitable for a monohull.

Orca green at $389 was a consistently lower intensity (but still meeting the 2m regulation) and had a much better ability when heeled.

Bebi performance met the requirements (just) but would not be my choice.

Aqua series 32 (Quickfit) £206 is a snap in replacement for the Quickfit series 40 and has a quite close similarity to the performance of the conventional bulb series 40 (tested as a basis for comparison) with actually a slightly better heeled performance than the conventional.

All prices are for the tricolour alone, and in UK.

IMHO if you are in a monohull, there is no decision to be made, the Aquasignal is by far the best. If you are in a multihull, the NASA offers very nearly as good a performance at 25% of the price.

Unfortunately the test did not compare power requirements.
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Old 01-10-2009, 16:07   #23
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Talbot great post. I would not worry about their power use anyway must be dramatically lower than what most of us are using today.

THX
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Old 01-10-2009, 17:19   #24
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Thanks for the wealth of info, Talbot. I'm going to wait another couple of months but will probably get the Nasa lights. I was willing to pay Lopo prices before I chanced on the Nasa product so maybe I'll get a spare...or five.
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Old 01-10-2009, 21:40   #25
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I wish PBO wasn't so damned expensive here. It's a very good magazine that combines the strengths of Ocean Navigator, Practical Sailor and Good Old Boat.
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Old 14-10-2009, 21:31   #26
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If your boat is insured and you have an insurance company that maybe reticent about paying claims - then I would suggest staying away from using any LED's in your existing required navigation lights. Yes, you may save money but you may end up voiding your insurance policy. Below is an extract from the BEBI Electronics webpage describing their LED's, etc. The two key points are that USCG certifications for lights are only done on the entire lighting fixture (including the bulb). If you put a "non-OEM" replacement bulb in the USCG certified navigation light fixture - it is no longer a certified unit. And in a case where navigation lights are an issue, you may find yourself without insurance. This only applies to required USCG lighting, not any other lighting.
- - I have added underlining to the insurance problem with non-OEM light bulbs. If the entire LED navigation fixture and its LED light inside is USCG certified then no problem. You have to watch the fine print . . .
>>>>>
Disclaimer on USCG Certification

In spite of our Masina® series of lights apparently meeting or exceeding COLREG requirements for a 2 nm light, you will note that we do not offer certification by Good Housekeeping, the USCG or any other agency. The USCG does not certify anything. Independent laboratories test light fixtures, with a light source supplied by the submitting party. The results are then submitted to the USCG who may issue a certification. Only light fixtures, with a light source included by the manufacturer, can be submitted. If you go to any catalogue selling incandescent, halogen, fluorescent, or dilythium crystal light bulbs, you will not see a single USCG certified light bulb, regardless of manufacturer.

What the USCG has to say about certification is found in 33CFR Sub-Part M, paragraph 183.801-803:

§ 183.803 Applicability.
This subpart applies to recreational vessel manufacturers, distributors, and dealers installing such equipment in new recreational vessels constructed after November 1, 2002.

§ 183.803 Definitions.
As used in this subpart: Dealer means any person who is engaged in the sale and distribution of recreational vessels to purchasers who the seller in good faith believes to be purchasing any such recreational vessel for purposes other than resale. Distributor means any person engaged in the sale and distribution of recreational vessels for the purpose of resale. Manufacturer means any person engaged in:
(1) The manufacture, construction, or assembly of recreational vessels, or
(2) The importation of recreational vessels into the United States for subsequent sale.
Navigation lights are those lights prescribed by the Navigation Rules (Commandant Instruction 16672.2 series) to indicate a vessel’s presence, type, operation, and relative heading.
As you can see, the burden of certification is solely on the manufacturer/distributor of boats, not the consumer, although you still MUST comply with COLREG. We will not attempt to address requirements of the 50 individual states and the territories!

If you have insurance and you are involved in a collision at night, your claim may be dis-allowed if you have a non-OEM light bulb, whether it is an LED, incandescent, halogen, or fluorescent, in the fixture, regardless of the real reason for the collision.
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Old 14-10-2009, 23:49   #27
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If your boat is insured and you have an insurance company that maybe reticent about paying claims - then I would suggest staying away from using any LED's in your existing required navigation lights.
The tests by the UK sailing magazine also included replacement bulbs of different types, and discovered that the brightness would just meet minimum requirements, (significantly less than NASA or Aquasignal LED), that the green tended to move a long way towards the blue of the allowable spectrum, but the biggest problem was alignment of the sectors. This became a significant problem if using a multicoloured led column for the tricolour.

Actually the issue of using non-approved bulbs as replacement technically not only excludes LED replacement, but also normal bulbs sold by a different manufacturer. In fact if youu really wanted to be picky, it is the housing and bulb that is certified, thus when the bulb goes, you should replace the housing as well ...........
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Old 15-10-2009, 08:00   #28
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Talbot - If the insurance company got that technical it would certainly indicate that no matter what the logic or adherence to "fine print" was followed you will probably never see any money from the company. That has happened more than a few times to groups of cruisers who had losses. There are other threads posted about "certain very reasonably priced" marine insurance companies who are essentially scams collecting premiums but rarely paying out any substantial loss claims.
- - I used the "USCG" to alert that this is primarily a problem with US insurance companies or USA boats with offshore "questionable/low cost" insurance companies. Obviously, each major European or elsewhere in the world, countries have their own "certification" standards for required navigational equipment and may or may not have the same silly requirements. But this just might be a major factor to any cruiser from or in the United "Sue you" of America.
- - The more you can reduce the variables in any situation the better chance you have in getting what is justly yours. This situation only applies to hull insurance losses, those with liability-only or no insurance can use whatever they darn well want to use. The manufacturers are obviously aware of this as the replacement incandescent bulb from the manufacturer of my tri-color costs US$40 versus the "generic" brands that are below $10.
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Old 15-10-2009, 08:42   #29
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I believe the issue is worldwide, and driven by the IMO agreements. However, I have never heard of an issue with a replacement non-company incandescent bulb.

Nevertheless, I will not be using a straight LED replacement bulb in the tricolour.
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