More Tsunami Debris off the PNW Coast

[vientoman]

If one were to locate and board the concrete behemoth, wouldn't it be great if someone were to mount a pole with a simple radar reflector on it. a few lag bolts with big honking lead inserts maybe. That would be a kind thing to do.

or while your at it, and for good measure, how about strapping 10 lbs of c-4 to the side of it.

[Richard5]

To follow on Roverhi's comment, decades ago of the many glass balls we found in Hawaii was one marked from Great Britain. Most curious was that it had a small amount of water in it since it had no discernable leaks. Many years later while commercial fishing I witnessed floats coming up crushed or intact but with water in them. A correlative moment came to me as I recalled that glass ball from decades earlier.

Later while sailing to Hawaii from CA we attempted to pick up a very large glass ball with net. The net was chock full with barnacles, crabs, etc. I had rarely seen such a large floating mass. The other guy on the boat explained how these things will experience such a growth that they become so heavy that sink to great depths...where the balls experience great pressure which acts to inject water. The growth dies off and the ball rises to the surface to start the process all over. Just an interesting observation. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it does make sense.

[delmarrey]

I'm sure the CG would love to have target practice with it, just like the ship last spring. I think that's why they want to find it.

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by vientoman

If one were to locate and board the concrete behemoth, wouldn't it be great if someone were to mount a pole with a simple radar reflector on it. a few lag bolts with big honking lead inserts maybe. That would be a kind thing to do.

or while your at it, and for good measure, how about strapping 10 lbs of c-4 to the side of it.

And when it rolls over?

[vientoman]

Originally Posted by Richard5

And when it rolls over?

hooka, an underwater drill and another pole. We gotta look after each other.

[John A]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Says it all John....
There are a number of tricks to enhance low aspect targets in sea clutter, which can even be done on low power radars. I made sure I showed my watch-keepers how to depending on the type and quality of radar on board

It appears that you've turned off the private message feature of this forum.

Please try to be less judgemental of us unenlightend,who can only rely on personnel experiences.

kind regards

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

John....Not sure where you get that idea about concrete.
Marne Radar is a passive system where maximum target returns are based on hitting any object at as close to 90° as possible. (Look at radar reflectors on Nav Bouys and sailboats)

Performance of marine radar is largely determined by two factors, power and horizontal beam width.

The third key factor is the operator’s ability to manually adjust automatic filters so as to detect a solitary bird sitting on the water or tsunami debris.

Fourth of course is maintaining a constant radar watch, which the PNW is famous for because of the logs.

I'm struggling to understand this one. Logs are mostly submerged, made of wood, and have no surfaces at 90 degrees to the radar (because they're mostly submerged). The radar reflectivity is another really big factor to signal return which is why we all have radar reflectors on our plastic boats.

I just can't see how you see a log by radar, much less a bird. If you turned up the gain and turned off your filters, they'd be lost to the sea clutter.

As far as I know, nobody in the PNW uses radar to detect logs. They use their eyeballs during the day, and they pretend they aren't there at night and hope for the best. On overnight races we tell the newbies that all the logs sink at night (the sun's gravitational pull on the other side of the earth pulls them down), so you don't have to worry about them...

Have you ever detected a log using radar? What was the sea state? Did you know it was there before you detected it, or did you spot it on a flat, moonlit sea and then tune the radar until you could see it?

[Capt Phil]

Hey, JohnA... your observations on logs in the PNW are spot on. I'm sure I contributed to the hazards over the years but that was half a century ago so they probably long since rotting on the bottom somewhere. We used to call those puppies that were in the water for over a year or two and waterlogged in one end, 'widow makers' for obvious reasons. The propensity to sink end down depended on species with spruce being the most prone and cedar the least. As a towboat operator, we hated to lose a log because it was money in the bank that was popping out from under the boomsticks in heavy weather. With the advent of bundle booms, this happened less frequently and log transport by barge, principally to Asia, even less. We used to 'chaindog' around the perimeter of the boom sections but still lost the odd log if we couldn't find an island to hide behind in bad weather. Spent a couple of seasons beachcombing and did pretty well financially but dangerous work like most jobs on the water in the 50's and 60's in the PNW. Don't ever recall seeing logs on radar... never had that much to drink underway. Cheers, Phil

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Hey, JohnA... your observations on logs in the PNW are spot on. I'm sure I contributed to the hazards over the years but that was half a century ago so they probably long since rotting on the bottom somewhere. We used to call those puppies that were in the water for over a year or two and waterlogged in one end, 'widow makers' for obvious reasons. The propensity to sink end down depended on species with spruce being the most prone and cedar the least. As a towboat operator, we hated to lose a log because it was money in the bank that was popping out from under the boomsticks in heavy weather. With the advent of bundle booms, this happened less frequently and log transport by barge, principally to Asia, even less. We used to 'chaindog' around the perimeter of the boom sections but still lost the odd log if we couldn't find an island to hide behind in bad weather. Spent a couple of seasons beachcombing and did pretty well financially but dangerous work like most jobs on the water in the 50's and 60's in the PNW. Don't ever recall seeing logs on radar... never had that much to drink underway. Cheers, Phil

Wow, you've actually done real live beachcombing!

I'm glad to hear that a lot less logs are being lost these days. Still tons of them out there, but maybe they're primarily being floated off the beaches in storms and King tides?

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by Richard5

To follow on Roverhi's comment, decades ago of the many glass balls we found in Hawaii was one marked from Great Britain. Most curious was that it had a small amount of water in it since it had no discernable leaks. Many years later while commercial fishing I witnessed floats coming up crushed or intact but with water in them. A correlative moment came to me as I recalled that glass ball from decades earlier.

Later while sailing to Hawaii from CA we attempted to pick up a very large glass ball with net. The net was chock full with barnacles, crabs, etc. I had rarely seen such a large floating mass. The other guy on the boat explained how these things will experience such a growth that they become so heavy that sink to great depths...where the balls experience great pressure which acts to inject water. The growth dies off and the ball rises to the surface to start the process all over. Just an interesting observation. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it does make sense.

I have wondered for years how water got into those balls, pulled a few out of the ocean myself, that is a great theory and makes much sense.

Only question...so the marine life dies of, but that doesnt mean the protein detaches from the net and surfaces?

[Capt Phil]

Yes, Cwckham, it was back in the 60's and there was a strike in the timber industry in BC so I went 'combing on a small yarding tug I had an interest in up in Pender Harbor. Small enough draft I could get in close to the beach to get a line on the log, caged prop to avoid fouling and heaps of power to pull off the beach. In those days you needed to be handy with a chainsaw to buck off the end where the logging camp would stamp the butt end with their camp stamp for credit at the mill. Get caught doing that and there was a fine and jailtime for repeat offenders. Got a bit part in a TV series that was shot around Langdale and the Sunshine Coast. Met a guy named Bruno (forget his last name) who starred in the show. He didn't know the blunt end from the pointy end of a boat but was very popular... nice guy! Think the name of the diner where a lot of the shooting took place was called Molly's Reach in Gibsons Landing. We were all locals just picking up extra work at the time but most either worked in the bush or on the water in those days... good memories! Phil

[cwyckham]

So you were a beachcomber and played in the world famous show "Beach Combers"

Tres cool.

[cwyckham]

^^ Why the heck did it post the video twice? I just added it as a link once...

[HappySeagull]

...per invasive species, it may be matter of VIABLE populations. Per crabs or weed etc. you find on a small piece of debris,
#1 may not be from the debris' country of origin...due to a long passage time across the ocean.
#2 may not be in numbers to breed. One or two might be quickly snapped up by local predators
#3 ...or just not land in an hospitable place....
Local examples already exist: Green Crabs in Washington State, Manila Clams, Japanese oysters ('though these were introduced on purpose) How many hereabouts have ever seen a native oyster....?

[DeepFrz]

The Beachcombers, Bruno Gerussi.