Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-12-2012, 01:27   #16
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hood River, OR
Boat: Farrier, F-44SC, performance cruising cat
Posts: 148
Exclamation Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

If one were to locate and board the concrete behemoth, wouldn't it be great if someone were to mount a pole with a simple radar reflector on it. a few lag bolts with big honking lead inserts maybe. That would be a kind thing to do.

or while your at it, and for good measure, how about strapping 10 lbs of c-4 to the side of it.
__________________

__________________
vientoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 01:40   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 959
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

To follow on Roverhi's comment, decades ago of the many glass balls we found in Hawaii was one marked from Great Britain. Most curious was that it had a small amount of water in it since it had no discernable leaks. Many years later while commercial fishing I witnessed floats coming up crushed or intact but with water in them. A correlative moment came to me as I recalled that glass ball from decades earlier.

Later while sailing to Hawaii from CA we attempted to pick up a very large glass ball with net. The net was chock full with barnacles, crabs, etc. I had rarely seen such a large floating mass. The other guy on the boat explained how these things will experience such a growth that they become so heavy that sink to great depths...where the balls experience great pressure which acts to inject water. The growth dies off and the ball rises to the surface to start the process all over. Just an interesting observation. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it does make sense.
__________________

__________________
Richard5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 01:42   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

I'm sure the CG would love to have target practice with it, just like the ship last spring. I think that's why they want to find it.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 01:54   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 959
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by vientoman View Post
If one were to locate and board the concrete behemoth, wouldn't it be great if someone were to mount a pole with a simple radar reflector on it. a few lag bolts with big honking lead inserts maybe. That would be a kind thing to do.

or while your at it, and for good measure, how about strapping 10 lbs of c-4 to the side of it.
And when it rolls over?
__________________
Richard5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 01:58   #20
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hood River, OR
Boat: Farrier, F-44SC, performance cruising cat
Posts: 148
Wink Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
And when it rolls over?
hooka, an underwater drill and another pole. We gotta look after each other.
__________________
vientoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 08:55   #21
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, Wash.
Boat: no longer on my Cabo Rico 38 Sanderling
Posts: 1,794
Send a message via MSN to John A
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Says it all John....
There are a number of tricks to enhance low aspect targets in sea clutter, which can even be done on low power radars. I made sure I showed my watch-keepers how to depending on the type and quality of radar on board
It appears that you've turned off the private message feature of this forum.

Please try to be less judgemental of us unenlightend,who can only rely on personnel experiences.

kind regards
__________________
John A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 10:45   #22
Registered User
 
cwyckham's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,870
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
John....Not sure where you get that idea about concrete.
Marne Radar is a passive system where maximum target returns are based on hitting any object at as close to 90į as possible. (Look at radar reflectors on Nav Bouys and sailboats)

Performance of marine radar is largely determined by two factors, power and horizontal beam width.

The third key factor is the operatorís ability to manually adjust automatic filters so as to detect a solitary bird sitting on the water or tsunami debris.

Fourth of course is maintaining a constant radar watch, which the PNW is famous for because of the logs.
I'm struggling to understand this one. Logs are mostly submerged, made of wood, and have no surfaces at 90 degrees to the radar (because they're mostly submerged). The radar reflectivity is another really big factor to signal return which is why we all have radar reflectors on our plastic boats.

I just can't see how you see a log by radar, much less a bird. If you turned up the gain and turned off your filters, they'd be lost to the sea clutter.

As far as I know, nobody in the PNW uses radar to detect logs. They use their eyeballs during the day, and they pretend they aren't there at night and hope for the best. On overnight races we tell the newbies that all the logs sink at night (the sun's gravitational pull on the other side of the earth pulls them down), so you don't have to worry about them...

Have you ever detected a log using radar? What was the sea state? Did you know it was there before you detected it, or did you spot it on a flat, moonlit sea and then tune the radar until you could see it?
__________________
cwyckham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 11:09   #23
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

Hey, JohnA... your observations on logs in the PNW are spot on. I'm sure I contributed to the hazards over the years but that was half a century ago so they probably long since rotting on the bottom somewhere. We used to call those puppies that were in the water for over a year or two and waterlogged in one end, 'widow makers' for obvious reasons. The propensity to sink end down depended on species with spruce being the most prone and cedar the least. As a towboat operator, we hated to lose a log because it was money in the bank that was popping out from under the boomsticks in heavy weather. With the advent of bundle booms, this happened less frequently and log transport by barge, principally to Asia, even less. We used to 'chaindog' around the perimeter of the boom sections but still lost the odd log if we couldn't find an island to hide behind in bad weather. Spent a couple of seasons beachcombing and did pretty well financially but dangerous work like most jobs on the water in the 50's and 60's in the PNW. Don't ever recall seeing logs on radar... never had that much to drink underway. Cheers, Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 11:16   #24
Registered User
 
cwyckham's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,870
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Hey, JohnA... your observations on logs in the PNW are spot on. I'm sure I contributed to the hazards over the years but that was half a century ago so they probably long since rotting on the bottom somewhere. We used to call those puppies that were in the water for over a year or two and waterlogged in one end, 'widow makers' for obvious reasons. The propensity to sink end down depended on species with spruce being the most prone and cedar the least. As a towboat operator, we hated to lose a log because it was money in the bank that was popping out from under the boomsticks in heavy weather. With the advent of bundle booms, this happened less frequently and log transport by barge, principally to Asia, even less. We used to 'chaindog' around the perimeter of the boom sections but still lost the odd log if we couldn't find an island to hide behind in bad weather. Spent a couple of seasons beachcombing and did pretty well financially but dangerous work like most jobs on the water in the 50's and 60's in the PNW. Don't ever recall seeing logs on radar... never had that much to drink underway. Cheers, Phil
Wow, you've actually done real live beachcombing!

I'm glad to hear that a lot less logs are being lost these days. Still tons of them out there, but maybe they're primarily being floated off the beaches in storms and King tides?
__________________
cwyckham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 11:27   #25
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
To follow on Roverhi's comment, decades ago of the many glass balls we found in Hawaii was one marked from Great Britain. Most curious was that it had a small amount of water in it since it had no discernable leaks. Many years later while commercial fishing I witnessed floats coming up crushed or intact but with water in them. A correlative moment came to me as I recalled that glass ball from decades earlier.

Later while sailing to Hawaii from CA we attempted to pick up a very large glass ball with net. The net was chock full with barnacles, crabs, etc. I had rarely seen such a large floating mass. The other guy on the boat explained how these things will experience such a growth that they become so heavy that sink to great depths...where the balls experience great pressure which acts to inject water. The growth dies off and the ball rises to the surface to start the process all over. Just an interesting observation. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it does make sense.
I have wondered for years how water got into those balls, pulled a few out of the ocean myself, that is a great theory and makes much sense.

Only question...so the marine life dies of, but that doesnt mean the protein detaches from the net and surfaces?
__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 11:41   #26
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

Yes, Cwckham, it was back in the 60's and there was a strike in the timber industry in BC so I went 'combing on a small yarding tug I had an interest in up in Pender Harbor. Small enough draft I could get in close to the beach to get a line on the log, caged prop to avoid fouling and heaps of power to pull off the beach. In those days you needed to be handy with a chainsaw to buck off the end where the logging camp would stamp the butt end with their camp stamp for credit at the mill. Get caught doing that and there was a fine and jailtime for repeat offenders. Got a bit part in a TV series that was shot around Langdale and the Sunshine Coast. Met a guy named Bruno (forget his last name) who starred in the show. He didn't know the blunt end from the pointy end of a boat but was very popular... nice guy! Think the name of the diner where a lot of the shooting took place was called Molly's Reach in Gibsons Landing. We were all locals just picking up extra work at the time but most either worked in the bush or on the water in those days... good memories! Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 11:49   #27
Registered User
 
cwyckham's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,870
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

So you were a beachcomber and played in the world famous show "Beach Combers"

Tres cool.
__________________
cwyckham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 11:52   #28
Registered User
 
cwyckham's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,870
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

^^ Why the heck did it post the video twice? I just added it as a link once...
__________________
cwyckham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 11:53   #29
Registered User
 
HappySeagull's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: B.C.,Canada
Boat: 29'
Posts: 2,395
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

...per invasive species, it may be matter of VIABLE populations. Per crabs or weed etc. you find on a small piece of debris,
#1 may not be from the debris' country of origin...due to a long passage time across the ocean.
#2 may not be in numbers to breed. One or two might be quickly snapped up by local predators
#3 ...or just not land in an hospitable place....
Local examples already exist: Green Crabs in Washington State, Manila Clams, Japanese oysters ('though these were introduced on purpose) How many hereabouts have ever seen a native oyster....?
__________________
HappySeagull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 11:53   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: More Tsunami debris off the PNW coast

The Beachcombers, Bruno Gerussi.
__________________

__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS boatman61 Seamanship & Boat Handling 1322 13-05-2017 17:28
** TSUNAMI ** Costa Rica Pacific Side lenseman Health, Safety & Related Gear 10 05-09-2012 11:08
Tsunami Alert for Philippines, Indonesia, Belau Bash General Sailing Forum 2 31-08-2012 08:58
Japanís Debris affect on PNW delmarrey Challenges 6 14-02-2012 11:14
Twenty Million Tons of Tsunami Debris Floating Towards Hawaii msponer Our Community 4 30-10-2011 10:56



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:04.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.