Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-10-2009, 17:50   #91
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 323
A couple things to consider. Having a SSD (solid state drive) put in your laptop or desktop, it will lower power consumption and increase reliability ten fold, get rid of the hard drive, (yes, they are more expensive but worth every penny) the new LED backlit flat screen computer monitors (Dell makes one) have better color, are brighter and lower power consumtion than the typical LCD's, the LED monitors are also thinner.

Most LCDs use CCFL backlights, which are not as efficient at filling a screen with light from a LED backlight. CCFL backlights consist of several tubes stacked horizontally across the back of your monitor's panel. With LED backlights, there are many individual LEDs all over the back of the screen that can each be turned off or on. This gives LED displays much more precise control over the amount of light coming through the screen, and they are therefore more efficient at energy consumption. LED-based LCDs also have the potential to perform better than CCFL monitors in color accuracy and can be manufactured with much thinner panels than a CCFL-based display.

The 23" Samsung SyncMaster XL2370 LED LCD Monitor consumes only 28W and 1.3W in standby. It is full 1920x1080 HD, a monitor like this with a low power desktop with a SSD could be run off of 50-75W and 5-10W in standby mode.
__________________

__________________
Chipg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 01:57   #92
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Boat: Koopmans, 33 ft cutter
Posts: 170
It seems that presently the LED monitors are only available in rather large sizes, which are difficult to fit at the chart table of a 10 meter sailing boat.
On top of that, a 22" LED screen uses the same power as my present 15" screen.
Are there smaller LED monitor sizes in the pipeline or can I replace myself the old backlight system with the LED backlight?
__________________

__________________
Zoef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 02:18   #93
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoef View Post
It seems that presently the LED monitors are only available in rather large sizes, which are difficult to fit at the chart table of a 10 meter sailing boat.
On top of that, a 22" LED screen uses the same power as my present 15" screen.
Are there smaller LED monitor sizes in the pipeline or can I replace myself the old backlight system with the LED backlight?
I'm not sure, they might make them in a 17" version, if so I'd bet it would run off 15W. I guess you'd have to see what you can find on google.
__________________
Chipg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 07:51   #94
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: the golden state
Boat: pilot cutter
Posts: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipg View Post
A couple things to consider. Having a SSD (solid state drive) put in your laptop or desktop, it will lower power consumption and increase reliability ten fold, get rid of the hard drive, (yes, they are more expensive but worth every penny) the new LED backlit flat screen computer monitors (Dell makes one) have better color, are brighter and lower power consumtion than the typical LCD's, the LED monitors are also thinner.

Most LCDs use CCFL backlights, which are not as efficient at filling a screen with light from a LED backlight. CCFL backlights consist of several tubes stacked horizontally across the back of your monitor's panel. With LED backlights, there are many individual LEDs all over the back of the screen that can each be turned off or on. This gives LED displays much more precise control over the amount of light coming through the screen, and they are therefore more efficient at energy consumption. LED-based LCDs also have the potential to perform better than CCFL monitors in color accuracy and can be manufactured with much thinner panels than a CCFL-based display.

The 23" Samsung SyncMaster XL2370 LED LCD Monitor consumes only 28W and 1.3W in standby. It is full 1920x1080 HD, a monitor like this with a low power desktop with a SSD could be run off of 50-75W and 5-10W in standby mode.
Exactly. Think 'low power' and 'reliability' when considering marine computers...which right away eliminates everything with a standard harddrive. That is why the little HP Netbook I used for a chartplotter is so great....it already has a 'flash' drive factory installed -- it's like they custom designed it for ruggedized marine use (well, as 'ruggedized' and 'marine' as you'll find outside of a purpose-built device, anyways).
__________________
Not Sure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 09:23   #95
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Sure View Post
Exactly. Think 'low power' and 'reliability' when considering marine computers...which right away eliminates everything with a standard harddrive. That is why the little HP Netbook I used for a chartplotter is so great....it already has a 'flash' drive factory installed -- it's like they custom designed it for ruggedized marine use (well, as 'ruggedized' and 'marine' as you'll find outside of a purpose-built device, anyways).
There are alot of micro PC's on the market today like this one: stealth is a manufacturer of fast Mini PCs powered by Intel Core 2 Duo Processors.

This one uses alot of power, about 90W, it would be less if you choose the solid state drive option but there are others with lower power processors that use under 50W, they also make one without a fan, even less lower consumption. I like the fact that it has dual 2.4 g processors so you could use it to edit hi def travel videos, just have a separate western digital My Book hard drive (raid studio series) for the video footage / photos / music / movies / entertainment stuff.

This and a laptop with a SSD I'd travel the world alone and have no worries, not one, complete confidence. Well, maybe a handheld GPS just to be safe

I can attest to the reliablity and performance of solid state drives, I produce cable net TV shows/series and had solid state drives added to all my high end broadcast Avid editing systems. One show is an extreme action adventure series about tornado chasing, storms, hurricanes and not one of our field laptops failed with a SSD, if there is a supercell our office is in the core for the day, have been hit by 3 tornadoes this year. Not one prob from a SSD, hard drives would have lasted 3 hours or less and our production data would be gone.
__________________
Chipg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 10:26   #96
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevC View Post
Have you guys seen the Dell G2210 monitor?

It's cheap, it's LED backlit, and uses less than 18watts. I'm just in the process of figuring out how to power mine on DC. If you buy it under a business name, it's really easy to get a replacement monitor on warranty(when needed). The "marinised" displays all seem ridiculously over-priced.
Try finding one for automotive use, they're cheaper than the marinized ones.
Re: DC power: Not hard to do, but voids the warranty. You would need to have a regulated DC power source, not just tap into the battery system where voltage levels can fluctuate. Honestly, for any boat, it would be best if a 12v dc-dc regulator was used for all electronics onboard. This would save a lot of cash and equipment replacement costs if something happened to a battery or the charging system. If the reg ever failed, you could bypass it easily until you got another.

Also, you could find a monitor model that uses an AC-DC adapter. I found an adapter on eBay and they just so happened to list the models that it worked on, so here's a list of candidates for a 12v monitor that won't break the bank. "There's more than one way to skin a cat, even if you have to beat the hair off it"

Adapter Specification
AC adapter 12V 3A
Input: AC100-240V (worldwide use)
Output: DC12V 3A
Power: 36W

The Monitor List:
Compatible Part Number
PSCV360104A, AC-ES1230K, MPA-AC1, ADP-36CH

Fit LCD Monitor Model
Dell LCD Monitors:
1500FP
1503FP
1703FP
1900FP

Samsung LCD Monitors:
LTM1555
LTN1565
SyncMaster 150MP
SyncMaster 1501MP
SyncMaster 152B
SyncMaster 152T
SyncMaster 570S TFT
SyncMaster 570V TFT
SyncMaster 760V TFT
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 10:29   #97
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Boat: Koopmans, 33 ft cutter
Posts: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Sure View Post
Exactly. Think 'low power' and 'reliability' when considering marine computers...which right away eliminates everything with a standard harddrive.
Eh, let's see.
10 years ago I got a Toshiba laptop on board (33 ft sailing boat, 5 months per year at sea), 6 years ago I swapped that machine for a Sumicom S625F and since this spring I have the latest Zotac mini-itx so my wife can work with CS4.
All the machines had/have standard 2,5" harddrives (the fastest available) which never gave me any trouble.

I'm curious to know based on which FACTS you arrive at the conclusion that for marine pc's the reliability of standard harddrives is such that they can be eliminated "right away".
__________________
Zoef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 10:45   #98
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Boat: Koopmans, 33 ft cutter
Posts: 170
Fishman TX

Re: DC power: Not hard to do, but voids the warranty

Do I understand it is possible to mod a recent monitor with a 110 or 220 V AC power connection to run directly on a (regulated) 12V DC supply? If so, could you share that knowledge?
__________________
Zoef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 11:11   #99
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
not for the regular Joe...

Depends on the highest required supply voltage after the rectification stage and filtering, some require 15-24vdc and you wouldn't know this til after you acquired it.
If your existing monitor has a supply pack or "wall wart" you may not need to modify. Read the adapter label for the DC output.

The List I posted are all 110v models for standard home PC that actually use 12v after the adapter.

Any modifications to a standard AC unit will be model specific and it would be nice to have a schematic, though not required IF you have a working knowledge of component level electronics, not just passing. This is not something John Q Public can do. An electronics tech could add a standard adapter jack and fuse tapped into the power supply section. Be advised, the jack and wiring would need to at least meet the same current requirements of the unit in an AC operational mode.

Remember, do so at your own risk. Don't expect a guarantee from the mod tech either...

I'd suggest you use The List.
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 11:26   #100
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoef View Post
Eh, let's see.
10 years ago I got a Toshiba laptop on board (33 ft sailing boat, 5 months per year at sea), 6 years ago I swapped that machine for a Sumicom S625F and since this spring I have the latest Zotac mini-itx so my wife can work with CS4.
All the machines had/have standard 2,5" harddrives (the fastest available) which never gave me any trouble.

I'm curious to know based on which FACTS you arrive at the conclusion that for marine pc's the reliability of standard harddrives is such that they can be eliminated "right away".
I think the question may need asking is "How many times did it hit the deck by dropping or sliding off the table?" I've trashed 2 laptop HDDs in exactly this fashion, and the 2nd time trashed the laptop. By using SSDs you eliminate some of the "sh*t happens" factor. In a PC tho, it's not a great problem, but the life expectancy of the HDD may be shortened and rate of bad sectors may increase.
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 11:52   #101
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
slightly off-topic ...

I picked up an old Panasonic Toughbook (CF-38) on Ebay without RAM, HDD or OS. The idea was to use this in the cockpit, but I jumped in at the last minute and didn't get the part about the missing parts I mentioned above. I was wondering if there's anyway to a) slave it to another laptop down below or b) install HDD, RAM and Windows XP for a reasonable price.

I got it cheaply, so if it was just a bonehead move on my part, I can eat it.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 12:38   #102
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 323
The best SSD's can withstand 1,500 G's of shock / vibration, others 600+ G's. One of my laptops was in 6" of water for hours, it was toast but the SSD worked after dryng out, no data loss. I have lost many hard drives from dropping laptops and in extreme conditions, never lost a SSD drive.

It just comes down to how important your data is and how much reliability you want. Regular hard drives are fine for most people who are carefull with them but why not eliminate the weak link if you can for another $100.
__________________
Chipg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 12:46   #103
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 323
FYI the average life expectancy for a SSD is 1.5 million hours.
__________________
Chipg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 13:00   #104
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 323
They have a mobile micro PC that runs off 12v dc, look at all their micro computers, they even have a waterprof one. Lots of options to configure them.

stealth computer - Mobile / Vehicle Mini PCs, small form factor and fanless computers
__________________
Chipg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 13:15   #105
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: the golden state
Boat: pilot cutter
Posts: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoef View Post
Eh, let's see.
10 years ago I got a Toshiba laptop on board (33 ft sailing boat, 5 months per year at sea), 6 years ago I swapped that machine for a Sumicom S625F and since this spring I have the latest Zotac mini-itx so my wife can work with CS4.
All the machines had/have standard 2,5" harddrives (the fastest available) which never gave me any trouble.

I'm curious to know based on which FACTS you arrive at the conclusion that for marine pc's the reliability of standard harddrives is such that they can be eliminated "right away".
Well, for starters, it's a well known fact that standard harddrives are highly intolerant of movement, particularly jars and jolts. Back in the day these were commonly referred to as 'harddrives crashes' whereby the head of the harddrive came into actual contact with the harddrive disk instead of remaining in its position slightly apart from the spinning harddrive platter(s). Although technology has improved somewhat in the reliability and durability of standard harddrives, they are still susceptible to head crashes, among other ailments. Solid state drives (SSD or 'flash' drives as they are commonly refered to) don't suffer from similar head crash problems.

Simply because you've been lucky and not experienced a harddrive crash caused by movement or impact certainly doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist.

As for monitors, etc., I would think it would be preferable to simply use an AC pure sine wave inverter to power such devices rather than messing with converting them to DC.
__________________

__________________
Not Sure is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
12v computers, marine computers

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mac Mini Desktop Computers sluissa Marine Electronics 27 05-09-2009 19:46
sail mail for mac computers dpollitt Marine Electronics 4 07-12-2008 21:46
Great tool for finding stolen computers Stella Polaris Marine Electronics 1 17-07-2008 15:07
12 Volt Computers on board Quincofish Marine Electronics 2 21-10-2003 09:16



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:18.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.