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Old 30-08-2009, 18:52   #16
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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Hi to all brave PC builders,

- you can buy some great power sources from ambulance manufacturers supplies - you know an ambulance has 12 Volt onboard and computers, so ...

- I agree for all you power assumptions except that you tend to omit the case of an LCD screen - they take 100-150 Watts !!! Beware! and to get an IPX7, preferably touch-sensitive and sunlight viewable ... not easy,

- have a look at the new (laptops?) from Acer named Timeline - they run up to 9 hours on charge, are inexpensive (relatively) so make a nice alternative for those who build upon a lap/net -book.

-----

My big problem here is - in Europe it not all that easy to find an IPX7 and sunlight viewable screen. One can be imported, but at a cost that would make the whole project pointless. A decent LCD for the navstation can be had at some 100 USD. Again, if we include the LCD consumption into the energy needs of the system we end up with 150+ Watts against 70 on a 14 inch laptop, and less in case of a netbook or a nettop + screen.

So my current setup is : 1) an ordinary laptop (400 USD, new), plus 2) a gps in the cockpit, with the laptop used for everything (planning, creating and sending WPTs, piloting, weather) and the gps for navigation, course trim and piloting in heavy weather.

My target system is: 1) a plain netbook (300 USD, new) with an independent 12 inch screen for the nav table, plus 2) a Garmin 620 or alike at helm.

With the new system we want to achieve all what we have now plus:
-less power consumption,
-smaller footprint,
-AIS at helm,
-chart at helm.

I just wish had Garmin priced more reasonably - it is not more than a nice car plotter (OK it is very well marinized) but they ask price twice of what we are used to in cars !!!

b.
Dan,

150 watts??? Not for the Argonaut. I don't know how it works maybe some others will understand it better but what I do know is that max power on my boat for the screen and computer is 4 amps or about 48 watts. It is LCD with a difference in technology in that it uses reflected sunlight during the day. Here's a quote from their website:
"Argonaut has built a name for its direct sunlight readable Tflex displays. The unique Tflex optical system reflects bright light back through the screen image making the screen get brighter as ambient sunlight gets brighter. An astounding 2000+ nits can be achieved in direct sun conditions without the use of high power consuming and heat generating backlight assemblies. The result is long term reliability and lower operational costs compared with traditional high brightness sunlight displays."

Expensive but way less than the competition at $3000 for a sunlight visible screen. I have no connection to them other than I know several boating friends that suggested I try it. I did and I'm thrilled with the performance.

Best regards,
Chris
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Old 30-08-2009, 19:30   #17
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Originally Posted by chris blair View Post
Dan,

150 watts??? Not for the Argonaut. I don't know how it works maybe some others will understand it better but what I do know is that max power on my boat for the screen and computer is 4 amps or about 48 watts. It is LCD with a difference in technology in that it uses reflected sunlight during the day. Here's a quote from their website:
"Argonaut has built a name for its direct sunlight readable Tflex displays. The unique Tflex optical system reflects bright light back through the screen image making the screen get brighter as ambient sunlight gets brighter. An astounding 2000+ nits can be achieved in direct sun conditions without the use of high power consuming and heat generating backlight assemblies. The result is long term reliability and lower operational costs compared with traditional high brightness sunlight displays."

Expensive but way less than the competition at $3000 for a sunlight visible screen. I have no connection to them other than I know several boating friends that suggested I try it. I did and I'm thrilled with the performance.

Best regards,
Chris
Whoops! I meant to send this to B. Sorry Dan.
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Old 30-08-2009, 19:48   #18
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Whoops! I meant to send this to B. Sorry Dan.
I am SO offended. I may not speak to you for 5 seconds.

-dan
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Old 30-08-2009, 21:43   #19
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Dan,

That's much more in line with what I'm familiar with. I think the Argonaut is even lower due to it's technology that somehow uses sunlight reflected back from behind the screen. So on a bright day the screen gets brighter without consuming more power.

Thanks.

Regards,
Chris
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Old 30-08-2009, 21:46   #20
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I am SO offended. I may not speak to you for 5 seconds.

-dan
Glad you're not easily offended. I'm obviously new here and barely figuring this forum out.

Regards,
Chris
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Old 31-08-2009, 07:18   #21
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Interesting thread.

Here is my plan for a onboard computer. I may or may not rethink it after reading up what some of you have proposed. Not being familiar with 12v computers I leaned towards 110 via our inverter.
Here is the current system in planning:
Lian Li case
Newegg.com - LIAN LI PC-V350A Silver Aluminum MicroATX Mini Tower Computer Case - Computer Cases

DFI micro ATX mobo with onboard video and sound
Newegg.com - DFI LP JR GF9400-T2RS LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 9400 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

Hard drive, boot
Newegg.com - G.SKILL TITAN Series FM-25S2S-128GBT1 2.5" 128GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - Solid State Disks

Blue ray player/burner
Newegg.com - LG 8X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 6X BD-ROM 2MB Cache Blu-ray Burner Model BH08LS20 - Blu-Ray Burners

4gb of memory which I have, processor is a intel core2 duo which I have, output sound to a poly planar MRD70 stereo,
video split with cockpit display probably the argonaut series in cockpit, and 22-24" in salon with a adjustable mount for both nav use and salon. We will even be able to see from our main stateroom bunk.
The system is in constant change/development... meaning I have not really bought anything for it yet... lol. But once onboard this sytem will do triple duty for nav, entertainment and general wifi. Plus a compact wireless keyboard of course.
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Old 31-08-2009, 09:05   #22
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Great system with lots of capability. My only constructive comment would be to look at the power consumption. Your baseload is considerable with that processor and the loss from the inverter. If you have a power source that you don't mind using a lot you'll certainly outperform the low power 12v systems with Intel Atom processor. There's no right or wrong here. It's just good the know the consequences. I have 600 amp hour house batteries, 515 watts of solar power, and 5.5 KW diesel genset. Yet I still prefer the lower power on the nav/sound system so I can run the water maker with most of my solar power and not run the genset unless we need A/C. But we spend a lot of time in remote areas of the Keys and Bahamas. So what works for us isn't for everybody.

Best regards,
Chris
SV Toucan Dream
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Old 31-08-2009, 09:46   #23
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Thankx

Great thread thank you for starting it. I am not to the stage of a cpu install yet. It will be a good resource when I am ready.
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Old 31-08-2009, 10:11   #24
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I have a toughbook cf 18 that we plug into and inverter, but I hate the idea of going from DC to AC to DC again so will be getting a 12v supply. In the meantime I usually just wake it up and put it to sleep on it's own battery. Can anyone way how many amps I am wasting in the conversion process? The Cf18 draws about 4 amps.
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Old 31-08-2009, 10:39   #25
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Dacust, you must be talking of the monitors with contrast just good for the navtable, if you keep the windows shut. But the sunlight viewable stuff uses way more energy. The oled won't but it is not yet here.

However, reading your msg and checking against the web I found you are right - probably now possible to get the numbers you quote, rather than what I quoted.

I noted this year Acer introduced some model which are "36%" more power efficient. Good.

b.
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Old 31-08-2009, 13:36   #26
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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Dacust, you must be talking of the monitors with contrast just good for the navtable, if you keep the windows shut. But the sunlight viewable stuff uses way more energy. The oled won't but it is not yet here.

However, reading your msg and checking against the web I found you are right - probably now possible to get the numbers you quote, rather than what I quoted.

I noted this year Acer introduced some model which are "36%" more power efficient. Good.

b.
b.,

I just redid my test to be sure I remembered this correctly. With the Argonaut screen powered and running opencapn I read 10 amps at 12.8v. when I remove power it drops to 8.5. That's less than 19.2 watts for a very sunlight readable 15" screen. Not bad!

Regards,
Chris
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Old 31-08-2009, 13:38   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Dacust, you must be talking of the monitors with contrast just good for the navtable, if you keep the windows shut. But the sunlight viewable stuff uses way more energy. The oled won't but it is not yet here.

However, reading your msg and checking against the web I found you are right - probably now possible to get the numbers you quote, rather than what I quoted.

I noted this year Acer introduced some model which are "36%" more power efficient. Good.

b.
Yep, when I looked for a link for my post, I was surprised they were that low. That's good news. But they are still a grand to start. And 1,500 with touchscreen. But that's way cheaper than a coupla years ago.

-dan
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Old 31-08-2009, 13:41   #28
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b.,

I just redid my test to be sure I remembered this correctly. With the Argonaut screen powered and running opencapn I read 10 amps at 12.8v. when I remove power it drops to 8.5. That's less than 19.2 watts for a very sunlight readable 15" screen. Not bad!

Regards,
Chris
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Wow, that's dramatically lower than even the ones I found!
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Old 31-08-2009, 15:52   #29
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OK, and the Argonaut price how does it stand up against a thing like Garmin 620 (which I believe is about 750 USD) ? BTW are the connectors (power and data) fully waterproof (IPX7)?

I love the idea of having only "household' electronics onboard - hate to pay for things that are supposed to do only one thing, cost me loads, and then they are often the first to break.

b.
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Old 31-08-2009, 16:23   #30
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By the time you get to a sunlight viewable screen and decent weatherproofing you are already above the cost of a Garmin 545, 620 or 640, and those come with a complete set of charts.

I have an old Sony Vaio laptop at the nav station. It's my entertainment center as well as my backup GPS (using Rose Point). Every week I back up my data on a portable drive which goes in a waterproof bag.

If the vaio dies, I'll just buy another laptop. Taiwanese electronics are comsumables, not capital investments. The processor and operating system will be out of date in 2-3 years no matter how much you spend initially.
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