Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-03-2013, 01:08   #1
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,130
Maptech

I've been looking over my Maptech waterproof chart book, (Puget Sound) and found, to my dismay, that the second edition uses charts that are "up to date" through July, 2003.

That means to update these chart books, I'd have to go through around 520 Local Notice to Mariners.

Looking at their website, it appears that this is the latest edition for Puget Sound.

The other thing I noticed on their website is that the "terms and conditions" under which they'll sell me a chartbook includes the stipulation that I must not use their chartbooks for navigation.

Which leaves me wondering exactly what their selling...

Badly out of date pictures of old charts, perhaps?
__________________

__________________
Jammer Six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2013, 02:57   #2
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Re: Maptech

I suspect you will find the geography, the shorelines, the water depths, and most of the marks in that area have not changed since 2003.

While marks are constantly being lost, moved, replaced, serviced...in many places if you are doing planning the question is not whether an individual mark will be there, but what the properties of "there" are, and if you are piloting, you probably can do that quite well even if some of the marks aren't there.

Anhorages, lighthouses, stacks, rocks, these tend to be unchanged.

Or you can download the latest electronic charts, do a quick printout, and compare them to see if the important marks (to you) are still there, or have changed.

You pay your money, you take your choices. Just like horseracing.
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 07:10   #3
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,950
Images: 6
Re: Maptech

Maptech charts are quality products. As good as you will find from a commercial provider. The truth is that a lot of the charts that are available are based on information a lot older than 2003. For the United States (which, of course, would include Puget Sound) you can get the most current available charts directly from NOAA for free. Check out this website...
Nautical Charts & Pubs

But be aware that even though these are the most current charts available, some of the information is based on surveys done decades ago. They don't go out and re-survey all navigable waterways every year.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 09:31   #4
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,432
Images: 25
Re: Maptech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
I've been looking over my Maptech waterproof chart book, (Puget Sound) and found, to my dismay, that the second edition uses charts that are "up to date" through July, 2003.

That means to update these chart books, I'd have to go through around 520 Local Notice to Mariners.

Looking at their website, it appears that this is the latest edition for Puget Sound.

The other thing I noticed on their website is that the "terms and conditions" under which they'll sell me a chartbook includes the stipulation that I must not use their chartbooks for navigation.

Which leaves me wondering exactly what their selling...

Badly out of date pictures of old charts, perhaps?
You can get a fairly good idea of how accurate your chartbook charts are by comparing what is available on NOAA's on line Chart Viewer with the specific charts for your area. Unfortunately, MapTech does not up-date its ChartKits very often as I recently discovered and one has little choice but to review the NTM's for the charts you are using and mark changes by hand--assuming you want accurate charts as to marks etc. which do change even though geographic features may not.

FWIW...
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 10:06   #5
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Re: Maptech

"MapTech does not up-date its ChartKits very often"
No vendor can afford to do any better. The problem is simple economics and market. Printing doesn't become "affordable" until you use lithography and a minimum run of 1000 impressions, which would mean 1000 chartbooks in each press run. But that's only "affordable" compared to the one-off on-demand printing. If you really want to get affordable printing, you're looking at 10,000 or 50,000 impressions.

Now, how long do you think it would take to SELL an inventory of 10,000 chartbooks for any region? Right, that could be ten years, so it simply will take ten years or longer before anyone can afford to print an update each time by conventional printing.

The alternative is on-demand printing. You could pay $40 for a single chart, ballpark for what one poster-sized color print costs, on paper stock. A bit more for plastic stocks. Wanna buy a chartbook that has been updated same-day from the NOAA databases? OK, $40/page times twenty-five pages...a fast thousand dollars? Starts to sound like the price of a chartplotter, doesn't it?

No matter how you bump the costs, half, double, not much difference, a hundred bucks for a "chartkit" still is a bargain compared to what anything better would have to cost.

Of course some of the stuff Captain Cook surveyed is still in use. Good enough for gummint work, as they say? <G>
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 13:53   #6
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,130
Re: Maptech

Well, it would be a bargain if the company sold them for navigation.

And if they were printed in the same decade that they were sold.
__________________
Jammer Six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 06:09   #7
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,950
Images: 6
Re: Maptech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
Well, it would be a bargain if the company sold them for navigation.
They're just trying to cover themselves legally. In the small print for every chartplotter ever sold (at least, every one that I've ever seen) there was also a disclaimer that said "not for use for navigation." Uh, yeah... so what do they think people buy them for?

No offense, but you're kind of making a mountain out of a molehill. The Maptech chart books are perfectly fine to use for navigation.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 09:32   #8
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,432
Images: 25
Re: Maptech

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"MapTech does not up-date its ChartKits very often"
No vendor can afford to do any better. The problem is simple economics and market. Printing doesn't become "affordable" until you use lithography and a minimum run of 1000 impressions, which would mean 1000 chartbooks in each press run. But that's only "affordable" compared to the one-off on-demand printing. If you really want to get affordable printing, you're looking at 10,000 or 50,000 impressions.

Now, how long do you think it would take to SELL an inventory of 10,000 chartbooks for any region? Right, that could be ten years, so it simply will take ten years or longer before anyone can afford to print an update each time by conventional printing.

The alternative is on-demand printing. You could pay $40 for a single chart, ballpark for what one poster-sized color print costs, on paper stock. A bit more for plastic stocks. Wanna buy a chartbook that has been updated same-day from the NOAA databases? OK, $40/page times twenty-five pages...a fast thousand dollars? Starts to sound like the price of a chartplotter, doesn't it?

No matter how you bump the costs, half, double, not much difference, a hundred bucks for a "chartkit" still is a bargain compared to what anything better would have to cost.

Of course some of the stuff Captain Cook surveyed is still in use. Good enough for gummint work, as they say? <G>
Please note that my earlier comment was merely an observation. The charts are not up-dated although they should be as nearly as of the date each edition, at least, in my view. Needless to say, however, there is a lead time between the preparation of a chart kit for printing and the actual printing itself during which there will be changes which occure continuously.

For those that don't thoroughly study the ChartKits they buy, the Kits do include Appendicies that are a compilation of the changes noticed in the NTM that have been issued between the date of the various chart editions in each Kit and the date of the binding and distribution of the ChartKits to vendors. As a consumer, one's task, if one cares to undertake it, is to work through the Appendicies up-dating each chart in the Kit in turn. Appendix B of the Chartkit lists the charts in each Kit in turn (and page numbers) and the changes needing to be made. It is a laborious job but one that must be undertaken if the Charts are to be relied upon. (Frankly, considering the foregoing, in my opinion a selection of chart correction rub-on lables should also be included with each chart kit to make that job a little easier.)

Considering the foregoing, Iit is sometimes easier to compare the printed charts and the latest on-line charts mentioned in my previous post to get a sense of the extent of the changes, which can be significant and potentially dangerous if missed. For example, there have been major changes to the marks leading to the entrance to the Manatee River and the south end of Tampa Bay. If one were relying on the Chart included in the latest ChartKit of the area (Region 8), one would be looking for marks and ranges that no longer exist and new marks that could easily be confused for some of the old--particularly at night--that would lead one into dangerous/shallow water.

The "bottom line" is that to have the most reliable charts possible, one must do one's homework, no?
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 10:05   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
Re: Maptech

I have a copy of MAPTECH San Juan Islands Edition 1.
It is just like new. I bought it about ten years ago and never used it and probably never will. 23 pages of full color charts.
PM me if you want.
__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 16:16   #10
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,130
Re: Maptech

I'm sitting here staring at Puget Sound edition 2. The Budd Inlet map was last up dated in March.

March 1998.

There are more than 676 LNMs to look through before this chart will be up to date.

And this edition is the latest edition of Puget Sound Maptech puts out.

Gee. I wonder if anything has changed since last century?
__________________
Jammer Six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 18:55   #11
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Re: Maptech

"There are more than 676 LNMs to look through before this chart will be up to date."

You just don't get it, do you?

The chartkit chart will show you the iunchanged stuff, the primary marks and depths and shorelines. If you want the 676 updates and all the current navaids, you buy a current chart, printed on demand and current to the day you bought it.

Or you can sit around for a week posting and changing 676 updates.

No one else seems to have a problem figuring that out.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 20:15   #12
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: Maptech

Jammer Six,

The electronic versions of the NOAA charts are updated frequently, and are available for download free of charge.

They are available both in raster format (essentially, a "picture" of the underlying paper chart) and in vector format.

The chart for Budd Inlet is No. 18456_1. The latest raster version includes all Notice to Mariner corrections through March 20, 2013...about 2 weeks ago. You can download it here: Chart Downloader for NOAA RNC&#174
Scroll down to #807.

As was said earlier several times, it simply isn't economical for Maptech to publish new paper chartkits every time a new NTM or chart comes out. But you do have an alternative...the electronic charts. You can view these, use these, etc., using software from a number of sources, including Maptech.

I don't know what kind of boat you have or navigation capability, but if you have an iPad you can use the raster charts with an app called "iNavX", available in the Apple Store for very little $$$. It's an excellent program and the chart renditions are glorious!

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 20:48   #13
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Maptech

If you know where you're going, simply compare the online charts to your kit. Your boat goes 6 knots, how far can you go in a day or two?
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 20:56   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Maptech

If it makes ya feel any better, I still use my 1930s charts of The PNW and Alaska, I find that there is stuff on them that can't be found on todays charts! maybe they are out dated, but they will put ya on some fish you might never find any other way ! LOL We also have the 2003 dated charts, which so far I have not found any great problems with them ! Heck most of the charts we use for the gulf side of Mexico are 100 years old !! If the lights and bouys are right what else do ya need ?? the depths don't change much ! and the shorelines pretty much the same on my 1900 charts and todays charts !! Just sayin I think ya have the newest charts available!
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 14:50   #15
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,130
Re: Maptech

I guess either you see the value of up-to-date charts or you don't...

I didn't until I spent an hour looking for a light that ain't there no more.
__________________

__________________
Jammer Six is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
maptech

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.