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Old 16-01-2019, 21:20   #76
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

My statement still stands. Transport category airplanes of today do not have whiskey compasses nor any kind of self-contained standby compasses in their cockpit. The last airplane I flew was the Boeing 767-300ER and it had none. It does have seven independent navigation systems and gyro compasses that drive the compass roses on the cockpit multifunction displays which display heading in magnetic. The last airplane I flew with a "standby" whiskey compass was the DC-10. I don't believe any of my company's current fleet of Air Buses have standby compasses.

To repeat, I see no reason why the aviation industry does not convert to true and ditch magnetic altogether. Too expensive to repaint all those runway marking, reprogram all those electronic flight bags and reprint what paper charts are still in use. With todays technology even a little bug-smasher training plane like a Cessna 150 can be easily and inexpensively be converted to glass-cockpit multi-function displays.
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Old 16-01-2019, 21:28   #77
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

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Originally Posted by Alan Mighty View Post
Hmm ...

1. compass, the instrument for drawing a circle, is the older term in English. OED cites usage examples in written English from about 1340.

2. compass in the sense of a mariner's compass, is a more recent term by just less than 200 years. OED cites usage examples from about 1515.

And the key point is that compass (mariner's compass) is named after compass the drawing instrument. The origin of 'compass' for the circular card and the magnetised needle is unexplained other than, as already noted, it is named after the drawing instrument.
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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/compass


Middle English: from Old French compas (noun), compasser (verb), based on Latin com- ‘together’ + passus ‘a step or pace’. Several senses (‘measure’, ‘artifice’, ‘circumscribed area’, and ‘pair of compasses’) which appeared in Middle English are also found in Old French, but their development and origin are uncertain. The transference of sense to the magnetic compass is held to have occurred in the related Italian word compasso, from the circular shape of the compass box.
Guys, you gotta stay with the programme.
While what you say was once true, these days ya gotta use modern methods and references.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compass_(drawing_tool)

Just like no one uses gay anymore when they mean happy and carefree
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Old 16-01-2019, 21:46   #78
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
armageddon takes years to accomplish .. ohmygod we all gonna die hahahahaha
so what i have been saying for a few years has been proven correct. cooool. i have been waiting for proof.
good.
got it.
now... humans are all gonna die. we w will all need to walk on our hands and wear fur.
so chikkin little has been activated and we alllll gonna DDDIIIIIIEEEEE!!!!!
so. what is humans knee jerk reaction? TAX it. hahahahahahaha
i think mother nature doesnot take bribes, so nix that.
just deal with it like animals do. you will not awaken one day with snow on your nose.
happy sails.
and no, it is not the fault of any usa president and hatred of a usa president is a nasty politics and needs to be stopped in this forum. thankyou.

There had better be zombies, I'm not leaving without zombies.
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Old 16-01-2019, 22:08   #79
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

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Originally Posted by jmschmidt View Post
My statement still stands. Transport category airplanes of today do not have whiskey compasses nor any kind of self-contained standby compasses in their cockpit. The last airplane I flew was the Boeing 767-300ER and it had none. It does have seven independent navigation systems and gyro compasses that drive the compass roses on the cockpit multifunction displays which display heading in magnetic. The last airplane I flew with a "standby" whiskey compass was the DC-10. I don't believe any of my company's current fleet of Air Buses have standby compasses.

To repeat, I see no reason why the aviation industry does not convert to true and ditch magnetic altogether. Too expensive to repaint all those runway marking, reprogram all those electronic flight bags and reprint what paper charts are still in use. With todays technology even a little bug-smasher training plane like a Cessna 150 can be easily and inexpensively be converted to glass-cockpit multi-function displays.
OK, I can accept that modern airline transport aircraft may have removed the self-contained standby compasses in their cockpit however tens of thousands of other aircraft haven't.
I suspect the main reason for aviation to remain using magnetic references is that it is easy to design and manufacture a heading system (i.e. gyro compass) that always points to magnetic north without any further need for additional data or adjustment. The magnetic flux detector simply detects the earths magnetic field and aligns the heading pointer accordingly.

To use a magnetic heading system and adjust for true requires additional data input. Apart from highly complex (and expensive) inertial nav systems, I'm unaware of any system that will inherently determine where true north is while the system is in motion.

I'm curious to know why you think using true is better than magnetic other than when using paper charts or navigating near the poles
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Old 16-01-2019, 23:14   #80
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Do they make them for small boats.?? and how accurate are they in compensating for Earth wobble..

Apparently they do. Some are even small enough to fit in an R/C plane or drone.


As for Earth wobble I'm not sure. If you mean nutation, I suspect that's not much of a problem. Tables for correcting for the effects of precession and nutation over a 9 year period can be found in Pub 249. If these corrections can be made this simple, I don't see why they couldn't be integrated into a gyro compass.
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Old 16-01-2019, 23:44   #81
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Guys, you gotta stay with the programme.
While what you say was once true, these days ya gotta use modern methods and references.

Just like no one uses gay anymore when they mean happy and carefree


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Old 17-01-2019, 02:07   #82
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

^^
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Old 17-01-2019, 02:54   #83
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Did that person have an IQ that was only double digits? A schedule (passenger or owner) is certainly a dangerous thing but paper charts? Some may eschew paper charts but to call them dangerous is a bit silly.
To clarify I suppose..... if the paper charts are in their plastic covers somewhere at the back of the Nav Station collecting dust (like most inupdated charts) they probably aren’t dangerous.
If everyone on the water switched off their electronic navigation aids and did it “old school” with paper and sextant and compass variations then I think I would trade my boat for a Winnebago and a TomTom?
btw. Have the greatest respect for your knowledge and ability skipmac.
Just honestly can’t say the same for everyone else who is on the water.
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Old 17-01-2019, 04:00   #84
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

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Originally Posted by jmschmidt View Post
They already have invented such a compasses one is call an initial navigation system. Today they are run by solid state, ring-laser gyros, no spinning mechanical gyros.

The other is called GPS. Both systems can be set up disregard magnetic. No more using grid navigation to navigation over the poles.
The initial navigation system was the lodestone.

Rather a lot of inertia over many years meant it took quite some time to invent inertial navigation...
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Old 17-01-2019, 04:09   #85
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

I see the whole thing as a non issue....

Surely all *real* navigators still take an azimuth every watch and at every major course change and work out their compass error using the ABC tables?

What is printed on the chart is neither here nor there.....

In fact how do you think they established what variation existed in locations assorted in the first place? Read it on FaceBook??
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Old 17-01-2019, 04:42   #86
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

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.........

In fact how do you think they established what variation existed in locations assorted in the first place? Read it on FaceBook??
Nope, they read it on CF...
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Old 21-01-2019, 08:04   #87
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

I will always have paper charts on board also I am sailing with GPS and plotter and a tablet PC as a backup. Electronic can fail and then I can continue coupling. I made once this experience.


As for the change of the magnetic field, I look at the annual deviation and calculate the a correction.That's it for me.


Why should there be any threat? I don't see one.
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Old 21-01-2019, 08:11   #88
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

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Originally Posted by fish53 View Post
If you research this you'll find that they expect the poles to reverse, in other words the North pole will be in Antarctica, some serious variation there. It was said that the last time this happened was 780,000 years ago. Add climate change to this and navigation may be the least of your problems.
It's actually just the opposite. It's magnetic south pole now in the north or we have named the poles wrong and actually the down under is right here
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Old 21-01-2019, 08:19   #89
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

Do the GPS satellites use the earths magnetic field to determine their position or are they calculating position independently from the earths magnetic field?
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Old 21-01-2019, 09:09   #90
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Re: Magnetic Pole Shift causing Armageddon!

Well, with a little googling one can discover that there have been numerous magnetic pole reversals documented by scientists for quite a long time. This is obviously not the same as a shift in the rotational pole of the earth, which has moved about 1% per million years.

The Wikipedia description is pretty clear and easy to read if folks would like to learn about this. Basically the metal in the near-surface core moves around and that causes both local and large scale shifts in the magnetic field. Which is exactly what the article was talking about.

We are, indeed, "late" for a flip of the magnetic poles. But, that lateness is pretty hard to quantify as some flips have lasted for as little as 200 years.

Dismissing an article based on its publisher and ridiculing things and people is a pretty weak argument. Doing a bit of reading to find out what's really going on is much more accurate but does require a tiny bit of work.

Wikipedia on the topic HERE

More scientific reference that you'll ever need at the end of the Wikipedia article.
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