Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

[Kettlewell]

Wavey Line Charts are the paper version of the Explorer electronic charts
Electronic Charts | Wavey Line Charts

Are you sure about that? In the past Explorer Charts were completely different than Wavey Line, though maybe they collaborate now?

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

It looks like the Navionics Charts are the only ones that steer you into the reef

The Garmin Charts look good, because they use the Explorer Charts.
The Explorer Charts are what everyone is recommending for the Bahamas’
The CM93_ed2_World_Charts_jan_2010 look good.

Maybe someone can post a RayMarine Charts or some of the others

I used Garmin electronic charts with the Explorer Charts loaded in on my last trip to the Bahamas and I found them to pretty darn accurate. I had been warned away from the Navionics charts as being very innacurate in the Bahamas in places. This story makes me glad I listened.

[FSMike]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

---

Wavey Line Charts are the paper version of the Explorer electronic charts ---

If that's so then what are the Explorer paper charts a version of?

[Cotemar]

Explorer electronic charts are made from Wavey Line Charts paper data.

http://www.peneglos.com/wavey/charts/electronic-charts/

It all comes from Wavey Line Charts paper data from when Bob Gascoine and Jane Minty surveyed all those area's in a dingy with depth and GPS going. Took them years to do. They are meticulous; hence that is why the charts are so good.

About Us | Wavey Line Charts

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Explorer electronic charts are made from Wavey Line Charts paper data.

http://www.peneglos.com/wavey/charts/electronic-charts/

It all comes from Wavey Line Charts paper data from when Bob Gascoine and Jane Minty surveyed all those area's in a dingy with depth and GPS going. Took them years to do. They are meticulous; hence that is why the charts are so good.

About Us | Wavey Line Charts

Possible confusion:

Rosepoint Coastal Explorer = electronic navigation tool, uses electronic charts of many sources.

Explorer Chartbooks for the Bahamas: Welcome to Explorer Chartbooks
Authors:

Authors Monty and Sara Lewis have spent over 20 winter seasons cruising the Bahamas. With a love for the Bahamas and the help of their shoal-draft motor vessel Saranade and GPS technology, they have created these charts and cruising guides to make it easier and more pleasant for cruising folks to enjoy a taste of paradise so close to the mainland of North America. Monty grew up in the waters around Ocean City, Maryland, and he and Sara conducted summer daysailing trips for shoreside visitors in their sloop VIVACIOUS for 12 years. Monty has held U.S. Coast Guard License for more than 40 years and is a past commodore of the Eastern Shore Sailing Association and a retired Maryland State Police Sergeant. Sara's background in English and journalism have helped her in layout and design of the chartbooks and compiling Need-to-Know Info and other articles.

Explorer Chartbooks are not based on Wavey line charts (Bob Gascoine and Jane Minty), I think they are competing products.

[Kettlewell]

I'm pretty sure Sara and Monty were out there long before the Wavey Line folks--I've personally seen them in the past out doing their survey work all over the Bahamas. I have no idea if they somehow collaborate with Wavey Line now, but at least the editions of the two different products I have seen look very different.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by smj

To me $300 is a small price to pay to spend time in some of the most beautiful islands in the world. I also wonder if the $300 comes close to helping those Bahamians that used to make a living fishing and conching in the Bahamas
before the tourist raped their fishing grounds? But ya gotta love island time!

Obviously you have not been around the Bahamas long~ to make a statement like this, I started sailing/boating and then Later running a Dive charter Business 10 years in the Bahamas-- 47 years ago as a boy I first cruised there with my Dad - and what your saying is just is not true- Its not been the so called tourist who have raped the Bahamian islands of the fish , conch & lobster it’s the Bahamians them self- While rules were implemented for all to conserve the sea life the only people who would follow the rules were the “tourists” --the locals themselves NEVER have done so- They use big fish traps on all the reefs catching every size and kind of fish there is worth keeping , same for the conch, they use banned spearguns everywhere with power heads = they have been taking undersize conch & Lobster in and out of season , selling them for as long as I can remember & because everyone has a brother, or cousin, who is the local law enforcement, NO ONE is ever bothered, that is unless you’re a Foreigner , then if your caught you have big trouble, big fines and maybe have your boat taken if they like it-

[Hudson Force]

'not quite as long as RAM, but my first crusie on my own boat to the Bahamas was 41 years ago and he's absolutely right!

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Through the Georgetown Harbour East Cut (North Channel Rocks Cut)? Becuase if you are comming from the Caribbian or Turks and Cacos it cuts 13nms off compared to Conch Cay (Georgetown West Entrance)

Or are you saying between Guana Cay and Fowl Cay? There is no pass,or cut there. There never has been as far as all the books/charts say.

The Georgetown Harbour East Cut, .8nm S of Fowl Cay is fine. Tricky, but fine.

Yes, I meant Guana and Fowl.... Yes, been out the East cut several times with 6.5 draft. got to the point where I had it nailed "visually".

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yes, I meant Guana and Fowl.... Yes, been out the East cut several times with 6.5 draft. got to the point where I had it nailed "visually".

'just a recheck here,-- Guana & Fowl are both common names in the Bahamas and there's a place to pick deep water between the two in the Abacos. Are we all speaking of the same place? The "page" we're on is just south of George Town in the Exumas. Maybe Cheechako knows a route,- I've passed by, but never attempt a way through even in a dinghy.

[FSMike]

This thread is about Elizabeth Harbor in the Exumas.

[Vasco]

Sorry about another boat being lost in the Bahamas. Since 2004 when I first got a chartplotter, unfortunately a Raymarine with Navionics chips, I have been posting on this site and others re not relying on Navionics charts in the Bahamas. I must have posted a dozen times, sometimes I feel like a broken record and frankly felt that I was posting too much on this subject. I guess it was not enough. I have corresponded with Navionics on this subject but they do not seem to care. I have pointed out where their charts were incorrect but their reply was that they relied on their own data ( obviously incorrect) but that was their answer. Anyone that cruises in the Bahamas relying on Navionics does so in their own peril. Do not rely on Navionics charts in the Bahamas.

[roetter]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Anyone open navionics today? All of a sudden there is a row of reefs/obstructions inserted on the chart in that passage, making it look unnavigable. Looks like realtime updates to the Navionics chart, as I am connected to internet.

I feel bad for navionics if they get too much bad press out of this. Generally it's a great product, but honestly I would not trust any chart plotter I haven't validated to thread me between 2 islands, at least not without someone on the bow with an overhead sun... From my sailing the the BVI, it's not hard to see reefs when the depth is <4-5 feet. The unmistakeable yellow/green hue to the water replaces the usual blue....

Malbert 73

This Rolf from Next Life. I stopped by the Navionics booth at the Miami boat show and made them aware of the problem. All they said was sorry and gave me a lesson on how to mark those reefs. He put int those obstructions as I was standing beside him.

[roetter]

Originally Posted by scimitar

that magenta "line", that is not ""recomended" route or any route. that is "area limit".
i wonder is this the same "captain" that some time ago was asking here on CF "what is meaning of the lower number next to chart depth units".

now he will have plenty of time to take some course how to read nautical charts and what is what on it.

Please only speak if you know what you are talking about. I know exactly what I am doing and know how to read charts. I was not the person you are talking about in your message. I have done almost 20,000 Nm cruising, including doing the inside passage to Alaska, Bay of Biscay, all of the Med, crossing the Atlantic and Pacific, cruising almost all islands of the Caribbean. It have done about 100 sailing races in difficult navigation areas with plenty of rocky islands and passes with currents flowing up to 10 knots. I wonder what you have to your credit to speak in such a way about me?

The Navionics charts clearly indicate that this is "Centreline of recommended route". See pictures,

We ran aground at a position that shows 9 feet of water. We draw 4 feet. We has checked the Navionics charts two days before against the full length inside of the reef of Mayaguana Cay Abrahams Town. We found every sandbar and coral head in place and all the deep spots too. We found an offset of about 60 feet to the GPS location a,thing easily corrected for by eyeball when near shore lines. We did this very carefully when the sun was high. We felt we can trust the charts in this situation. Two cays nearby that confirm your position is correct. We aim for the middle with a slight offset to starboard between the two cays.

Another couple we met in the morning had independently plotted the same course using the same material. They later said that they would have run aground had we not passed them. I tried to get the Explorer Charts in the USVI but could not find them in the chandlery.

We sailed into the sun. Not a good thing to do. There were no breaking waves at that time. There was no reason to go slow with that much water reported and dead on a recommeneds route.

I am not saying I did everything right, but I am not an idiot either.

[Lagoon4us]

That's an extreme NAVIONIC'S error one i'll certainly re-enforce to every sales person hence, we run an E120 naturally Navionic's loaded and use it and paper charts.

Your terrible experience hopefully will be an education for others, we are very sad to see the demise of 'Next Life' and wish you well with the coming (not easy) months.

Cheers and best wishes.