Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-02-2013, 07:27   #61
Registered User
 
LeaseOnLife's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: out cruising again
Boat: Sailboat
Posts: 1,047
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Anyone open navionics today? All of a sudden there is a row of reefs/obstructions inserted on the chart in that passage, making it look unnavigable. Looks like realtime updates to the Navionics chart, as I am connected to internet.
...
The online version of navionics charts does not show the added obstructions WebApp | Navionics

The iphone navionics app does show these obstrcutions. These obstructions have been added in the "User-layer", User Ruge13 has added these 2/15/2013 14:12:12. The magenta line still 'recommends' the path thru the rocks.

5 screenshots:
  • Online navionics WebApp | Navionics
  • Navionics - iphone showing added rocks
  • Navionics - iphone showing added rocks, zoomed in
  • Navionics - iphone query of user-layer rocks
  • Navionics - iphone query of magenta line = "center of recommde..."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20130209-navionics-online-fowl-cay.png
Views:	219
Size:	73.4 KB
ID:	54922   Click image for larger version

Name:	20130210-navionics-iphone-fowl-cay-01.png
Views:	167
Size:	43.8 KB
ID:	54925  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20130210-navionics-iphone-fowl-cay-02.png
Views:	181
Size:	64.3 KB
ID:	54926   Click image for larger version

Name:	20130210-navionics-iphone-fowl-cay-03.png
Views:	152
Size:	59.8 KB
ID:	54927  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20130210-navionics-iphone-fowl-cay-04.png
Views:	164
Size:	37.6 KB
ID:	54928  
__________________

__________________
LeaseOnLife is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 07:36   #62
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,138
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

edit to add, Lease posted while I typed. So is a recommended track? amazing goof.

=================

Noticing that the dashed line is still present in the updated chart, it seems that it does indeed indicate a boundary line. And is not a recommendation of track for entry. (boundary for what?, I don't know)

Looking at the charted area in general and for an entry path in particular it seems to me the area south of the island would be perceived to be a better choice.

Even at my experience level, I would be hesitant to follow that dashed line. Especially considering what I see just to the south.
__________________

__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 08:25   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

We have Navionics Gold in our Raymarine E120 Plotter, the charts i have are for Med only.

There is no recommended routes on any charts, the only lines are pipelines, submarine cables and designated areas.

Must be either a new offering or a Caribbean thing, certainly if you offer routes regardless of disclaimers you are leaving yourself open to litigation more so if blatantly wrong.

Will be interesting to follow.
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 08:33   #64
Registered User
 
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 3,157
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Quote:
Originally Posted by four winds View Post
Noticing that the dashed line is still present in the updated chart, it seems that it does indeed indicate a boundary line. And is not a recommendation of track for entry. (boundary for what?, I don't know)
If someone with this could zoom out and/or pan to southeast we may find a definition for this boundary. BTW The Exumas are divided into 2 political districts just like states in the US. Possible reason?
__________________
We don't need no stinking badges.
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 08:44   #65
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Does anyone know if the owner/operators have been able to tell their story yet?
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 08:47   #66
Registered User
 
LeaseOnLife's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: out cruising again
Boat: Sailboat
Posts: 1,047
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Does anyone know if the owner/operators have been able to tell their story yet?
They have a blog:
NEXT LIFE
__________________
LeaseOnLife is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 08:49   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Quote:
If someone with this could zoom out and/or pan to southeast we may find a definition for this boundary. BTW The Exumas are divided into 2 political districts just like states in the US. Possible reason?
When I blow up the Explorer Chart there is a red dashed line extending from the souteastern corner of Fowl Cay southwest over to near Isaac Cay. It is labeled "proposed no discharge boundary."
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 09:11   #68
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,035
Navionics on my ipad does have the magenta line labelled (when you click on it) as "centerline of a recommended route."
Hope their disclaimers are up to date

I certainly sympathize with the loss of boat, but even from the pictures the water looks shallow and reefy. I personally would have been going really slowly with watch on bow. I was not there, and do not in any way make this comment specifically to this situation-

But I have noticed the big safety difference between paper and e-charts is not the data. with paper charts, one's eyes are always out of the boat, trying to correlate visual cues with location and chart features. With e-charts, a real tendency comes to stare at the screen, to keep boat on a line, at the exclusion of interpreting cues from the surrounding environment, like shallow water ahead. Even if e-chart is correct, GPS is not always perfect.

I actually think I may start shutting off my chart plotter more this summer as I think my prior excellent DR skills have eroded since I installed the Garmin.
__________________
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 09:18   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Another thing is that no matter where you're going you should carefully read the guidebooks before you get there--I usually carry every guide for an area and read them all! Every guidebook I know of indicates that passage is either dinghy only, or only to be used when exiting the harbor, with excellent light, and after careful scouting, in perfect weather.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 09:31   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Check out the Navionics Web App chart and zoom in on the area. It looks to me like those dashed magenta lines are supposed to be routes. The other ends of those lines go to other harbors and cruising destinations.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 09:47   #71
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Reading their BLOG the story of what happened is very clear, it certainly appears that Navionics give routing on Caribbean charts, not something we have available in the Med although our charts are 4 years old.

A sad story indeed. Hoping your luck turns Rolf
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 09:49   #72
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Tuesday, 29 January 2013
Posted by Silke Sommerfeld at 05:48

Next Life aground - this is what happened...

So, we ran aground going through a cut between Guana Cay and Fowl Cay just outside of Georgetown in the Great Exuma Islands.

You might be wondering how this happened to us. And I even go as far as saying "...to us of all people", meaning that we both are very cautious people and were very well aware of the danger of reefs in this area.

The problem was that we had travelled with the Navionics Chart Software happily and safely for months and for more than 10,000 Nautical Miles. We had also travelled to Alaska and back with the Navionics software without ever running into any problems. We trusted the software, not blindly, mind you, we would still have our guards up. But we trusted it enough to make our passage planning based on the information it provided. For the route we took, Navionics did not only show the depth of the cut as being sufficient, it even showed it as the recommended route to take.

At the same time, the angle of the sun was such that we could never have seen the reef before it was too late. Local people who helped us said that there would have been no chance. And on top of that, the tide was such that the water didn't break in front of the reef, so there were no waves to indicate that reef either.

So the charts said it was okay to go and it looked like it was okay to go and that's when we ran aground.

We overheard people talking about the stranded catamaran in the supermarket yesterday. They were looking at pictures on their camera at the same time, so we started talking to them. I hadn't seen the boat after it had come off the reef last night and when I saw the pictures of Next Life floating with the water up to the salon table, I felt sick.

The insurance's surveyor is coming today, so tonight, we will know more.

The hardest part for me, I think, will be to go back to the boat later today and see the full disaster first hand. Rolf says it will still take some time for the salvage company to lift the boat up, so that we can see whether there are any more personal items we can take off the boat. I'm full of hope while trying to prepare myself for the worst. We only took the bare necessities like documents, computer equipment and such, cash & credit cards and some pieces of clothing with us when we abandoned ship.
We left so much behind, I don't even want to think about it.

NEXT LIFE
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Next_Life3.jpeg
Views:	248
Size:	112.1 KB
ID:	54936   Click image for larger version

Name:	Next_Life4.jpeg
Views:	250
Size:	144.2 KB
ID:	54937  

__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 09:59   #73
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Check out the Navionics Web App chart and zoom in on the area. It looks to me like those dashed magenta lines are supposed to be routes. The other ends of those lines go to other harbors and cruising destinations.
Your right. From Navionics Web App chart it clearly looks like that is the preferred route to take
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Navionics web chart.jpg
Views:	298
Size:	232.5 KB
ID:	54938  
__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 09:59   #74
Registered User
 
mbianka's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,125
Images: 1
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Navionics on my ipad does have the magenta line labelled (when you click on it) as "centerline of a recommended route."
Hope their disclaimers are up to date

I certainly sympathize with the loss of boat, but even from the pictures the water looks shallow and reefy. I personally would have been going really slowly with watch on bow. I was not there, and do not in any way make this comment specifically to this situation-

But I have noticed the big safety difference between paper and e-charts is not the data. with paper charts, one's eyes are always out of the boat, trying to correlate visual cues with location and chart features. With e-charts, a real tendency comes to stare at the screen, to keep boat on a line, at the exclusion of interpreting cues from the surrounding environment, like shallow water ahead. Even if e-chart is correct, GPS is not always perfect.

I actually think I may start shutting off my chart plotter more this summer as I think my prior excellent DR skills have eroded since I installed the Garmin.
Sounds like a good idea from time to time. I was recently on a charter where the Captain navigated solely by e charts. Either on his Apple I phone or the laptop in the cabin. I observed he did spend a lot of time staring at the screens and not the seas around the boat. He often left the helm and sat at the table in front of the laptop while the boat was on autopilot. I was sitting in the cockpit enjoying a beer and observed a sport fisherman heading toward our boat pretty far off to port. I watched the Capt. who was in the cabin in front of the laptop to see how long it would take before he noticed it. It was crossing our bow before he looked up an saw it. I think we sometimes trust the technology a little too much and miss some of the things we use to notice a lot sooner.
__________________
Capt. Mike
mbianka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 10:03   #75
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,943
Re: Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

That's sad. I'm just happy there was no injury or loss of life.

The question I have, is whether there are "official" government supplied charts available for that area, and whether such charts show the hazards.

We haven't sailed in that area yet, so we're trying to get a feel for what resources to trust.
__________________

__________________
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Bahamas, lagoon

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.