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Old 28-11-2018, 18:44   #1
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ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

Isailor once the best electronic chart system had been bought out by Wartsila a Finnish company. They now wantbus to pay annual subscriptions & updates. This system was good because it had free updates. I like most people wont be paying subs or updates . Im dumping it in the bin & returning to Navionics. Wurtsila can kiss my A$$.
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Old 28-11-2018, 19:26   #2
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

What's really funny about this rant is that Navionics of course charges for their update service--every year.

If you want updates, you have to expect to pay for them...

The difference is that you can choose not to update... and we all know what a long and foolish discussion will get involved with that issue..

For what it is worth to us, we have found the Transas charts WAY better than the Navioncs in the USA and Bahamas. We have also found that Navionics updates are a bit of a joke. They do not/can not even keep up to date with the current versions of the NOAA charts in the USA.

Just one example of the difference between the two:
https://fetchinketch.net/2018/04/23/...h-two-watches/
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Old 28-11-2018, 19:38   #3
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

I paid for a library of charts including the entire Pacific , Australia, The Med & more . At a premuim price because of the free updates. Now the new owners want to charge for what I have already paid for. If I have to pay for updates then I will return to Navionics at least they were honest. Another company will take over the nich thst Isailor created the new owners wont be getting one cent from me. From the opinions I have seen on other forums I am not the only one tossing Watsila in the bin.
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Old 28-11-2018, 23:59   #4
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

I'm not sure what is so good about isailor, I downloaded it because I heard it was better than navionics. I just haven't found this to be the case, at least on my Android app it isn't. It dosent always have the same detail as navionics eg. Bazaruto Mozambique.

Maybe it's area specific? I'm certainly not a navionics fan boy it's just I've found it much better.

I also don't bother with the updates.
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Old 29-11-2018, 00:10   #5
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

It was good in Fiji & The Great Barrier Reef Australia but the free updates were the best part. Now the free updates are gone & they want annual subscriptions then Navionics is the better option. Wartsila has made a huge mistake
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Old 29-11-2018, 03:11   #6
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

I’m bummed to hear about this. I’ve got Navionics charts on my plotter, so want an alternative on my phone (plus OpenCPN running raster charts on my laptop). I’ve used iSailor for a couple of years and the fully free version has been great as I haven’t wanted any of the upgrades to pull in boat/nav data and in our part of the Pacific the NZ charts we’ve purchased cover all the areas we’ve needed so far. But if they’re going to start charging (I haven’t seen any notice of that in the app yet) then I’m going to have to consider SEAiq and qtVlm as alternatives. But both of those seem way more difficult to set up and use. Darn, Navionics app it might have to be.
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Old 29-11-2018, 06:48   #7
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

While I can certainly see why you are upset, I think this is the very thing that the subscription model is trying to avoid. You paid a company for a product in the future (unlimited updates) that they could only provide if they survived. Their business model obviously didn’t allow that survival so you lost your bet that they would continue service.
By paying a yearly/monthly/whatever subscription you are basically hedging your bet that the company will survive only as long as your paid for service. This is (as distasteful as it is) probably the only model that is going to work long term for smaller companies as it is hard for consumers to trust that small companies will survive for the time it takes to get “our money’s worth” from unlimited and long term products.
I am finally coming around to this reality as I really cannot see any other way for a software company to stay in business these days.sd

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Old 29-11-2018, 09:39   #8
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

As others have said, Navionics charges for updates as well.
They are even worse than that, the most useful features of their iPad/smartphone apps (e.g., routing) stop working when the chart subscription ends (the app reverts to the low res charts, even if you paid for the full-fledged one), but they do not mention this "detail" when you purchase the app, which I think is a terrible business practice. And the chart subscription for the plotter does not cover the chart subscription for the apps, so you end up paying twice for the same thing. The reality is that we are held hostage by Navionics.
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Old 29-11-2018, 10:20   #9
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody Mike View Post
I paid for a library of charts including the entire Pacific , Australia, The Med & more . At a premuim price because of the free updates. Now the new owners want to charge for what I have already paid for. If I have to pay for updates then I will return to Navionics at least they were honest. Another company will take over the nich thst Isailor created the new owners wont be getting one cent from me. From the opinions I have seen on other forums I am not the only one tossing Watsila in the bin.
Choose well, since last year updates from navionics went horrible, at least Philippines, no idea why, offset by variable distances, Subic container port eradicatd, but only from the charts. If I follow old tracks I run over land on the charts, the tracks are still correct, very confusing. Sending screenshots they returned my money. I'd prefere correct charts again!
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Old 29-11-2018, 10:39   #10
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

Im hoping to find a new app or system that replaces I sailor but as had been mentioned above any successful format will be taken over or bought out eventualy. I found several faults with early ISailor but they reacted quickly to my emails & fixed problems. I built up quite a large library of charts from Isailor & often sat planning voyages to places I never got around to visit. Now it all seems such a waste of money . At least I did get to use some of my Med charts this year .
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Old 29-11-2018, 11:27   #11
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

At least, they did not wiped out all what we had already download.

Fugawi was not so smart: They simply pulled the plug november 30th, 2018. Fugawi was providing maps for iNavX as well as for all the Navionics+ maps. Just saying.

Well, yes, that is the end of the free charts update. I have been using iSailor for the last 5 years. it served me well. And the free charts update deal was amazing. Somehow, that had to change. It is a business decision.

Still, electronics charts are still a much better deal than paper charts.

And 50$ for the whole Bahamas area is much cheaper that buying for instance the paper charts like the 3 Explorer chartbooks needed to cover the area at 80$ each.

Paying for charts is to me just normal. And if it can bring some perennity, it somehow makes sense.

Just saying.
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Old 29-11-2018, 14:19   #12
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabioC View Post
As others have said, Navionics charges for updates as well.

They are even worse than that, the most useful features of their iPad/smartphone apps (e.g., routing) stop working when the chart subscription ends (the app reverts to the low res charts, even if you paid for the full-fledged one), but they do not mention this "detail" when you purchase the app, which I think is a terrible business practice. And the chart subscription for the plotter does not cover the chart subscription for the apps, so you end up paying twice for the same thing. The reality is that we are held hostage by Navionics.


Are you sure there is not something else going on. My subscription just expired and I still have access to all my old stuff. I can do routing, etc. It does ask me to renew but if said no it still worked fine. I never got low res charts for the area that I had already downloaded.
I am using the Navionics app on iOS so maybe it is different elsewhere. The only thing I saw that was different when I renewed was that I got the updates.

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Old 29-11-2018, 15:21   #13
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

I am a great fan of the Transas charts. I have written to them to ask them whether the original paid fit downloads are subject to ambush subscription charges. I will post when I have a response.

In the meantime, the following might assist in relation to questions:

"Transas is now Wärtsilä Voyage. Please update your address book and replace service@transas.com with voyage.support@wartsila.com to get the support you need!


24/7: +46 (0)771 460 100
voyage.support@wartsila.com
www.wartsila.com"
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Old 30-11-2018, 10:30   #14
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

Honestly I don't care much about their model for new purchases. Everybody can make it's on decision where and what to buy.



But what really bothers me is that they break the contracts regarding my previous chart purchases.

I'm from Europe and they are in Europe. And in Europe it's the law that marketing promises are binding elements of consumer contracts. You cannot weak this promises in T&Cs.

And one of the central points the iSailor people were bringing up from 2013 on was "Free future updates for chart folios".

The company hasn't ceased their business, only the old owners have sold it to a new company, so they are bound to all liabilities Transas made with their customers.

Of course the others are charging as well and for new purchases there doesn't not seem to be an option for free-update chart purchases, but my transactions with them has been under different conditions.



Besides a lot of charts I bought several years ago one case is very special: I bought a chart for the Aegean in July 2018 and on the app it now says "Update service until 11th of March 2018". I never received any updates even if they state the 1 year subscription is included in every purchase now.
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Old 30-11-2018, 13:25   #15
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Re: ISailor charts now charging anual subscription

Well we have had a bit if a win i recieved this email & theres more coming
We have received a lot of comments about our recent iSailor update. As always, community feedback is tremendously important to us, thank you for voicing your opinion. We do appreciate that.

We want to provide some context around these changes.
Why the change

While our existing model has worked well for thousands of customers, and us, it has certain drawbacks in terms of our obligations to Hydrographic Offices and the whole charts production infrastructure, that we have been addressing for quite some time, based on the various feedback we received.

To continue providing you with reliable service, worldwide chart collection, and chart updates, we decided to change our model. We believe that such a model is more sustainable in the long run and will allow us to continue making iSailor great for you.

Our terms have always stated that charges are subject to change. In hindsight, we should have provided notice of these changes much further in advance, so we apologize for that.

All your purchased chart folios remain available, and you can continue using them for as long as you wish to. You can find information on how to restore previously purchased charts here =>

Our customers expect professional support from our team. That is why we have a dedicated support team at isailor.support@wartsila.com that will be happy to assist with all your queries.

As we continue to evolve the iSailor application, we plan to release lots of new features, for instance, the Autorouting feature is planned to be released in the first half of 2019.

One of the top goals at iSailor has always been to provide our users with the best possible experience, both regarding the product and the services surrounding it.
If you have any further questions, please send an email to isailor.support@wartsila.com, and we’ll be happy to answer!

iSailor team
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