iPad and Navionics Question

[Captain Ludd]

Originally Posted by Capt.Don

Depending on your chart coverage, in addition to iNavX and Navionics, there are a couple of promising nav apps. I'm starting to recommend SEAiq (US and Open), iSailor w/Transas charts, Garmin BlueChart Mobile (not best for real-time/go-to navigation), and Navionics.

I too am concerned about Navionics' recent charge for everything and subscription model. SEAiq is impressive, iSailor display is stunning and worldwide chart coverage.
Don

I liked the look of the iSailor.
It's all very confusing for the newbie.
Seems all the apps are free and you pay for the maps, not easy to find the costs but I'm getting there.
Thanks

[Jammer Six]

You only pay for charts in some parts of the world.

[Captain Ludd]

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

You only pay for charts in some parts of the world.

Thanks

I'm trying to work my way through them to find out what the costs are.
Seems to me at first glance that if you are going to remain in one or two areas it isn't so bad but if you are going to roam far and wide it's quite costly.

[Captain Ludd]

Still hoping there might be a knight in shining armour out there who might give me a layman's explanation of the pro's and cons of the various packages.

[scurrvydog]

Originally Posted by Capt.Don

Depending on your chart coverage, in addition to iNavX and Navionics, there are a couple of promising nav apps. I'm starting to recommend SEAiq (US and Open), iSailor w/Transas charts, Garmin BlueChart Mobile (not best for real-time/go-to navigation), and Navionics.

I too am concerned about Navionics' recent charge for everything and subscription model. SEAiq is impressive, iSailor display is stunning and worldwide chart coverage.
Don

The annual fee for Navionics+ covers ongoing updates and the continuing expansion of the community sourced Sonar Charts. Navionics is the ONLY charting software vendor that offers "Freshest Data". If a light is moved or is temporarily out of commission, you will know about it because you will have updated your relevant chart coverage from Navionics online before you cast off. I think the idea here is that using a chart that hasn't been updated in...oh, maybe 5 years is not prudent. Seems a reasonable price to me. I deliver boats for a living-7K miles since January, and I absolutely must have the latest navigation information.

[Jammer Six]

Actually, Navionics updates appear to include "crowd sourced" data. When I asked Navionics if the updates included the data from U.S.C.G. LNM, they did not answer directly, instead telling me that there were "thousands of updates each week." I had the distinct impression that the person I was talking to did not know what an LNM is.

There are not thousands of updates in LNMs. Two years ago, I had a current, up-to-date, up-to-the-moment Navionics chart that showed a light that was removed ten years ago. (The Pt. Monroe light.) That was when I walked away from Navionics permanently. If they were wrong then, they could still be wrong, and I don't like the odds. Ten years or so is plenty of time to update a chart. But it did leave me wondering how anyone can do "thousands of updates each week" and miss a light.

As far as crowd-sourced data, I'm not interested in the fact that Skeeter and Booger couldn't find the channel mark they usually tie up to for bass fishing, and called it in to Navionics.

SeaIQ is very easy to update to the latest published version of NOAA charts, both vector and raster charts, and tracks whether a given portfolio of charts has been changed by NOAA. That puts you within a couple or three weeks of absolutely up to date. You get the same version you'd get on the latest POD paper charts.

iNavX is equally easy to update, but you're stuck with updating every chart, rather than just the ones that have changed. (A very minor nit.) iNavX only handles raster charts, SeaIQ handles both. (Which is fine with me, I don't like vector charts. I want to look at a chart and see the information that I need, without clicking down a dozen layers to find it.)

iNavX is faster than SeaIQ.

Neither show the LNMs they include.

After searching as diligently as I can, I have not found an electronic chart system other than those used by commercial passenger liners that will offer you completely up to date charts, right up through the latest LNM.

And that's why I carry paper, because they ARE absolutely up to date.

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

Actually, Navionics updates appear to include "crowd sourced" data. When I asked Navionics if the updates included the data from U.S.C.G. LNM, they did not answer directly, instead telling me that there were "thousands of updates each week." I had the distinct impression that the person I was talking to did not know what an LNM is.

There are not thousands of updates in LNMs. Two years ago, I had a current, up-to-date, up-to-the-moment Navionics chart that showed a light that was removed ten years ago. (The Pt. Monroe light.) That was when I walked away from Navionics permanently. If they were wrong then, they could still be wrong, and I don't like the odds. Ten years or so is plenty of time to update a chart. But it did leave me wondering how anyone can do "thousands of updates each week" and miss a light.

As far as crowd-sourced data, I'm not interested in the fact that Skeeter and Booger couldn't find the channel mark they usually tie up to for bass fishing, and called it in to Navionics.

SeaIQ is very easy to update to the latest published version of NOAA charts, both vector and raster charts, and tracks whether a given portfolio of charts has been changed by NOAA. That puts you within a couple or three weeks of absolutely up to date. You get the same version you'd get on the latest POD paper charts.

iNavX is equally easy to update, but you're stuck with updating every chart, rather than just the ones that have changed. (A very minor nit.) iNavX only handles raster charts, SeaIQ handles both. (Which is fine with me, I don't like vector charts. I want to look at a chart and see the information that I need, without clicking down a dozen layers to find it.)

iNavX is faster than SeaIQ.

Neither show the LNMs they include.

After searching as diligently as I can, I have not found an electronic chart system other than those used by commercial passenger liners that will offer you completely up to date charts, right up through the latest LNM.

And that's why I carry paper, because they ARE absolutely up to date.

LNM can be up to thousands of updates a week.. Take the Gulf Coast during storm season, buoys are everywhere. Oilfield is constantly changing, moving platforms, taking them down, pipeline moves/additions. But I agree that I would rather LNM over crowd sourced changes.

And paper charts are only as good as they are updated weekly. Which unless you get the chart overlay corrections(which we don't because it costs money) is a time consuming process. I'm a mate on a offshore support vessel, and we do it weekly.

We have ECDIS on board and we get a monthly correction cd for the electronic charts. It's nice but I'm sure the corrections cost money or subscription. Not to mention the cost of the system or software.

I'm not at the stage yet but I'm going to be getting an android and/or iPad for charting when I'm up and running later this year.

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[simonpickard]

I don't think anyone minds paying for charts, and I agree that having the latest info rather than 5 years old is of course a huge plus.

What it comes down to for me, and I know others, is having to pay for the exact same chart over and over per device.

I've paid for navionics gold on my plotter. Having to pay for the EXACT same date again for my ipad, iPhone, and mac laptop is crazy.

Until they work towards fixing that a lot of people will use cracked charts as there backup.

Regards,
Simon

[JNoel]

And yes Navionics does use U.S.C.G. LNM (that's Local Notice to Mariners) for those that don't know. So I am just wondering how did you purchase and iPhone, iPad, mac laptop for free? exactly it is about having different platforms to offer products. If you want the most current data it costs money to produce and keep them up to date. I don't read yesterdays newspaper today to keep on today's events. It is the same with charts.

[simonpickard]

It is the same with charts, yes.
Which is why I said I didn't mind buying them.

ONCE.

I shouldn't have to buy the same chart / updates, per device. At the moment I would have to. I'd have to buy the EXACT same data over and over again to use it on my devices which is nuts.
I was saying that until this changes a lot of people will avoid paying over and over.

Create a fair pricing model for everyone to use and I don't think anyone would have any issue with paying.

[Saildriver44]

I have used my ipad 3 and 4 and my iphone 4S onboard. You must have the cell data type ipad to get the independent GPS receiver. I seldom use the cell data on either ipad. I just don't subscribe. When I changed my plan to the family share plan it made cellular available for all my apple products. In order to not go over my limit I just switched off cellular data on both the iPads. Now in a pinch I can turn on cellular if I need it but the built in GPS on all the devices works even when out of cell or wifi range. It's an Apple gotcha. That makes you buy the more expensive cellular enabled device so you get GPS receiver.

As for protection, I've used the very expensive Lifeproof covers for all my devices. Yes, expensive, but never failed even when soaking wet. They are good down to like 15 feet I think. And yes, they have been fully immersed a couple of times though not intentionally. The only thing I don't like about the ipad cover is the actual face of the ipad is made part of the waterproof equation. There is only a no-ring around the glass which seals the face. It works and works well but I just wish I had some form of protection for the glass and possible seepage. I usually put the iPads in a waterproof ziplock as an added measure. If you don't press out the air in the ziplock and it falls overboard it will float. Added benefit. Don't ask how I know. That's my two cents.


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[scurrvydog]

Hmmm, sound a lot like my routine with my iPad-the LIFEPROOF case is that good! I totally agree.


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[Night_Sailor]

I never use a case, I keep it out if the weather.


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[Night_Sailor]

What was the question... I didn't see one ...


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[Jammer Six]

I use an iPad mini. I don't use a case, I bought one, but it doesn't fit in my pocket in the case, so I don't bother. I don't keep it out of the weather, and somewhere along the line, I bent it.

It survived, and is going strong, bend and all.