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Old 11-06-2011, 21:27   #226
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Re: iPad

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Originally Posted by Strait Shooter View Post
Actually Jeff, if one wants to utilize "full offline ActiveCaptain support" on eSeaChart, you have to subscribe to ActiveCaptain. You DO get monies from it then, correct? I mean if you want to actually use it that is.
I obviously don't know what the deal is between eSeaChart and ActiveCaptain.

That said - PolarView supports off-line ActiveCaptain data. Users do need to subscribe to ActiveCaptain service but, as far as I know, that is a free registration.

That is not to say that ActiveCaptain does not make money for its creators - I hope it does, but that does mean that users do not pay for it directly, AFAIK.
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Old 11-06-2011, 21:30   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Actually Jeff, if one wants to utilize "full offline ActiveCaptain support" on eSeaChart, you have to subscribe to ActiveCaptain. You DO get monies from it then, correct?
Joining ActiveCaptain is free John. I have never given Jeff a cent of my money, and I can utilize ALL of Active Captains features. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen like this on various forums. What is up with this crap? IMHO, Chris
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Old 11-06-2011, 21:35   #228
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Re: iPad

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I obviously don't know what the deal is between eSeaChart and ActiveCaptain.

That said - PolarView supports off-line ActiveCaptain data. Users do need to subscribe to ActiveCaptain service but, as far as I know, that is a free registration.

That is not to say that ActiveCaptain does not make money for its creators - I hope it does, but that does mean that users do not pay for it directly, AFAIK.
I as well hope they make money. I know I myself like making money as well, so I don't begrudge that.

I'll still stick with Navionics for now until something better (IMHO) comes along.
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Old 11-06-2011, 21:44   #229
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Re: iPad

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Originally Posted by Strait Shooter View Post
Actually Jeff, if one wants to utilize "full offline ActiveCaptain support" on eSeaChart, you have to subscribe to ActiveCaptain. You DO get monies from it then, correct? I mean if you want to actually use it that is.

I downloaded eSeaChart on the day it was released based on this thread and curiosity about ActiveCaptain and I must say I'm pretty disappointed.
Actually John, no, it costs nothing to subscribe to ActiveCaptain. If someone has been charging the 110,000 users we currently have, damn, I'd sure like to know where that money went because I've seen $0 of it and I co-own ActiveCaptain with my wife. Hey, wait a sec - maybe that's where she's been getting the money for all those shoes...

So if you have eSeaChart, go and get your own free account on the website. Then perhaps you'll see some of the advantage of having all that data offline on your iPhone/iPad. There's a lot that I like about the Navionics product too. Except Navionics doesn't give you access to current hazards, bridge restrictions, fuel pricing, slip pricing, anchorage reviews, and hundreds of other things. I do love the tide display in Navionics though.
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Old 11-06-2011, 21:46   #230
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Re: iPad

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Joining ActiveCaptain is free John. I have never given Jeff a cent of my money, and I can utilize ALL of Active Captains features. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen like this on various forums. What is up with this crap? IMHO, Chris
I'm not sure why I understood ActiveCaptain to be subscribed to. I thought when I tried to use the link on eSeaCharts it asked for it. I could be wrong though, I have been once or twice before. I apologize Jeff if I was mistaken.

I really like the Navionics charts better though. I have all the paper charts I need and eSeaCharts just seem to me........ well never mind, they don't work for me is all.

I'll still try ActiveCaptain given a chance though. I DO like the POI function on Navionics and would like to see more of these functions active on future navigation software.

Thanks for the help, I wonder WHY you keep hearing this stuff Chris.

John
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Old 11-06-2011, 21:48   #231
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Re: iPad

I suppose that's reasonable. Personally I am not too fond of Navionics because (unlike AC) they do not allow 3rd-party developers to use their data (or charts, as is the case with us, and we've asked very nicely, pretty please).

Like you said, I can't begrudge them that - it's their data and they probably make money well enough by having it locked up.

However, as I am finding out (it's a learning experience ), in this here marine industry most companies that have any data, clutch it to their chest as hard as they can and won't share it with anyone - even to their own financial detriment, just cuz they are so afraid to lose control of their precious bits . ActiveCaptain does - and I think this is a significant advantage.
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Old 11-06-2011, 21:51   #232
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Re: iPad

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Actually John, no, it costs nothing to subscribe to ActiveCaptain. If someone has been charging the 110,000 users we currently have, damn, I'd sure like to know where that money went because I've seen $0 of it and I co-own ActiveCaptain with my wife. Hey, wait a sec - maybe that's where she's been getting the money for all those shoes...

So if you have eSeaChart, go and get your own free account on the website. Then perhaps you'll see some of the advantage of having all that data offline on your iPhone/iPad. There's a lot that I like about the Navionics product too. Except Navionics doesn't give you access to current hazards, bridge restrictions, fuel pricing, slip pricing, anchorage reviews, and hundreds of other things. I do love the tide display in Navionics though.
Ya, the tide and current displays come in handy here in the PNW. Navionics did start adding POI's recently, and thats a good thing. Probably far behind ActiveCaptain though. Oh, and the wind overlays on Navionics is o.k. too, limited use, but maybe it'll get better.

I'll definitely check out ActiveCaptain now also.
Thanks for clearing this up, I was kinda wondering what was up.

Thanks all,

John
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Old 11-06-2011, 21:59   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Thanks for the help, I wonder WHY you keep hearing this stuff Chris.
I'm really not sure myself, but I've seen Jeff attacked a lot for offering a really valuable free service. I can understand the misunderstanding with eSeaChart though... Just go to ActiveCaptain online, join and use your log-in info to go back into eSeaChart and sync up so you can use the AC feature offline. It might take a few minutes the first time, there seems to be quite a bit of data there... If I'm wrong, I'll build Jeff's wife a new shoe locker... ;-). Chris
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Old 11-06-2011, 22:04   #234
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Re: iPad

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I'm really not sure myself, but I've seen Jeff attacked a lot for offering a really valuable free service.
We've reached the point where our users love us and our competitors hate us. It's a great position to be in although I have to put up with the rumors our competitors try to make.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

All of those things have happened. Wait until you see what's coming next...
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:48   #235
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I suppose that's reasonable. Personally I am not too fond of Navionics because (unlike AC) they do not allow 3rd-party developers to use their data (or charts, as is the case with us, and we've asked very nicely, pretty please).
Yes they do that's how they make their money. It's not free though ( why should it be) but they most certainly do OEM their products.

Dave
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:46   #236
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Re: iPad

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Yes they do that's how they make their money. It's not free though ( why should it be) but they most certainly do OEM their products.
Dave, I've had both source and use licenses with Navionics. At major trade shows, I've met with the company management numerous times. The President of Navionics recently exchanged emails with me about user-gen-content and the future of crowd-sourcing.

It isn't the case that they just license their data to anyone. Even with this relationship and previous licenses, I can't get their data and SDK for use on the iPhone, Android, or other mobile systems. Although I've never asked, I'd bet they've closed down the ability to license their libraries across other desktop platforms too.

I had been courted by a Navionics employee for about 18 months to create a Navionics version of "ActiveCaptain Mobile". There are dozens of emails to show the trail (he's since left the company). At the time, I was too busy building the website to work on the software. When I finally decided to approach them to work on an iPhone version (and port their libraries to Palm) they let me know that their SDK's were no longer available for the iPhone. I'm now involved with a handful of iPhone developers and I've heard the exact same story from some of them. They begged developers to support their data and then took it off the table when they moved ahead to try and use it.

Only one developer signed the contract early - iNavX. They do support the Navionics data today but what a difficult position they're in. The data costs as much as the Navionics app but then you have to pay $50 for iNavX.

I believe Navionics did this in a way to attempt to corner the market by releasing an extremely inexpensive mobile version of their data. It stopped the development of a variety of other apps and significantly dropped the price forcing many other developers to find something else to do. If marine electronics were a larger market, these anti-trust types of activities would gain much more visibility and probably bring some questions that governments would want answered.

So Dave, they don't necessarily OEM their products like you assume. They've gained a few years of advantage by their less-than-honest practices. A big player can often do that in the short term.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:37   #237
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Re: iPad

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Yes they do that's how they make their money. It's not free though ( why should it be) but they most certainly do OEM their products.

Dave
Perhaps - but so far all our attempts to OEM their products went nowhere. We didn't even get to the point where they "name the price".

Note that I didn't say that "should" do anything. It is their data and their prerogative to do as they please. However, I think that a service that disseminates data openly and consistently is better than one that does not do so.
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Old 13-06-2011, 14:25   #238
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Re: iPad

I used the iPad and iNavx for 5 Months this year cursing the Bahamas. I have the program on both my iPad and Macbook.
Love the app but don't like the Navionics maps. We (I was traveling with two other boats) found many errors.
I'm told that Explorer Charts are the gold standard for the Bahamas and that Jeppensen is coming out with a new iPad app that uses the Explorer Charts this year.

Jeff, I love ActiveCaptain, so I hope you contact Jeppensen and have it included in their App. That way I will have everything I want in one package.
GP
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Old 13-06-2011, 15:11   #239
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Re: iPad

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Jeff, I love ActiveCaptain, so I hope you contact Jeppensen and have it included in their App. That way I will have everything I want in one package.
I'm definitely on speaking terms with the Jeppesen/C-Map guys. In fact, a VP flew out to Charleston when we were there to meet with us on our boat just a couple of months ago.

If you'd like ActiveCaptain data on any app that doesn't have it now, the absolute best thing you can do is to write to the company producing the product and let them know you want it. We're talking to every major developer. They all have development schedules and features that they want to add. Nothing helps to re-arrange the priority list better than potential customers writing to them.

They all know that there's no licensing cost to add ActiveCaptain to their product. What they don't know is how valuable ActiveCaptain is to someone who's really out in a boat. Too many developers do their "boating" at desks and don't really understand how nice it is to see a hazard providing info or current bridge opening restrictions displayed right on their path. Pass a few boats grounded on the shoaled side of the channel or slow down and make it just at the bridge opening and all of a sudden, they'll get it.
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Old 13-06-2011, 22:53   #240
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Re: iPad

Jeff

I did as you and others advised. The screw up was mine (obviously).

Your system rocks! Navionics loss in my opinion.

So what other improvements do you guys that are involved in this technology see happening both near term and in the long run?
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