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22-08-2017, 14:47
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NSW
Boat: Bavaria 51
Posts: 56
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
If the pirates don't ya the US navy will
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22-08-2017, 15:05
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: AK
Boat: Albin Vega 27
Posts: 395
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Three ship collisions is a trend, not a simple accident. USN Lake Champlain, Fitzgerald, McCain. All in a 3 month period. China warned the US to stay away from disputed territory.
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22-08-2017, 15:11
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: AK
Boat: Albin Vega 27
Posts: 395
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag
perhaps the ACCIDENTS are NOT accidents but preplanned incidents.
think about it. midships hit where men sleep.
2 now same kind of hit. the usa is not hitting them they are hitting the navy. oops.
usn was not operating in usa waters
anything is possible.
many theories are plausible.
wonder what the reality is. 3 makes a pattern, very close to that now.
time to begin thought that this is a pattern against usn.
wake up america.
if it isnot a plot, then usn has become most lax and flaccid in their capabilities. must cease depending on electronix
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That would be three ships, Lake Champlain, Fitzgerald, McCain.
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22-08-2017, 15:23
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Moana 33
Posts: 1,092
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish
That would be three ships, Lake Champlain, Fitzgerald, McCain.
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And does anyone seriously believe the USN wouldn't have discovered within five minutes of the first accident if some outside force was interfering with the operation of their ships?
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22-08-2017, 16:23
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: AK
Boat: Albin Vega 27
Posts: 395
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NevisDog
And does anyone seriously believe the USN wouldn't have discovered within five minutes of the first accident if some outside force was interfering with the operation of their ships?
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And is anyone stupid enough to believe the military would admit a serious weakness in equipment?
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22-08-2017, 16:28
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Summerstown Ontario Canada
Posts: 457
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey
What is the deal with Navy ships running into massive containers ships? .
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Aj_n_Audrey, It bogles my mind also how this could have happened on two recent incidents. I was on board an Auxiliary vessel for 31 years and I had over 716 rescues under my command and never during ideal conditions. We never had an accident... (touch wood). When this type of incident happens, I always wonder who is deep down responsible. And this we might never know. However when there is a clever commander in charge that oversees his crew, he is ultimately responsible and has the feel or the pulse of the situation and only one person under his command can screw this up and if that commander is on top of things he can compensate and help out the week link. When there are more than a few persons doing the work load the crew can cover up their mistakes and ultimately cover the commander's mistake(s). When the investigators do perform their duty and sense the cover up, the whole crew pays, and I think this is what happened of the Fitzgerald... I saw this kind of cover up before. (my opinion) The decision is easy and people forget about the issue sooner.
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22-08-2017, 16:32
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Landlocked in Fort Mill, SC
Posts: 29
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulawayo
I agree, Ann.
A number of years ago, having exited the Suez Canal, bound for Cyprus, we were called up as unidentifed sailing vessel and ordered to move out of the way of small US task force comprising a helicopter carrier and its escorts. When I pointed out that we were a sailing vessel, as the radio operator had already identified, the extremely young sounding radio operator kept his cool and kept demanding we move - time after time - and always super polite. Only when I asked him if we should levitate did he finally desist with his demands. We also reminded him about ColRegs and passing. The small fleet passed several miles to the north of us. It was a ridiculous situation and clearly demonstrated that training was not up to standard even then - we have only experienced this with US vessels despite meeting Indian, Brit, Chinese and Russian naval vessels.
Not withstanding, we have never experienced anything but professionalism from all naval vessels.
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Had to take a shot didn't you? Everyone is pretty quick to jump all over these "kids" without having any proof as to what really happened.
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22-08-2017, 16:34
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Moana 33
Posts: 1,092
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish
And is anyone stupid enough to believe the military would admit a serious weakness in equipment?
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Hmmm... maybe China should start interfering with the steering systems on US military aircraft - surely that would be far more fun, if they were able??? I just don't buy these conspiracy theories; when you've seen the complexity in the control room deep in the bowels of a warship, you'll understand how far removed the controller is from the outside world, and how easily mistakes can happen.
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22-08-2017, 16:46
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 151
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
All three of those navy ships were struck from the side. So they apparently put themselves into the path of the ships that struck them.
Considering the relative lack of maneuverability of container ships and oil tankers, I find the concept of the commies using them as weapons to be utterly ludicrous.
And what about the fourth incident, or I should say the first, as it happened in january. The USS Antietam ran aground in Tokyo bay. I guess those clever commies seized control of the bottom and made it rise up into the path of the ship....
Oh, I know! They "hacked" the GPS system in such a way that only American vessels were affected! They must have also hacked all the binoculars, depth sounders, radars, paper charts, compasses, radios, and channel markers too!
And the alleged "steering problem?" Please. The only "steering problem" on that ship was the the officer on the bridge.
"There's probably a thousand different ways how something like this can happen," retired Rear Adm. John Kirby, CNN military and diplomatic analyst, told CNN's "New Day."
ReallY? Because i can think of only one way; drive your boat directly into the path of a container ship, fishing vessel, or oil tanker.
Look at the grammar in the admiral's statement, and you may see a clue to what the real problem is. The guy couldn't have passed my seventh grade english class, and he's an admiral.
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22-08-2017, 16:55
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oriental, NC
Boat: Baba 40
Posts: 501
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmesfo
It all starts at the top. The last two CNO's have been submariners and the investigation needs to start there as well as a thorough bottom-up review of training, leadership, and philosophy. As a retired Naval Aviator who served in the Pentagon in the 90's I also have to comment about how these folks are selected. It has become apparent, especially in the last 8 years that it is more important to be PC than to be competent. Obama fired Mattis because he wouldn't bend the knee to PC and told it like it was. My opinion is these folks who have been selected aren't the best choices but will go along to add the next star and provide for a cushy K street or corporate position on their retirement.
Sorry for adding politics to the discussion but I truly believe this is what has happened, not only to the Navy but to every other service. There is hope with the appointment of Mattis and the other admirals and generals to senior posts.
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And this former sub sailor thinks you're wrong, so skip the political crap.
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22-08-2017, 16:55
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: AK
Boat: Albin Vega 27
Posts: 395
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NevisDog
Hmmm... maybe China should start interfering with the steering systems on US military aircraft - surely that would be far more fun, if they were able??? I just don't buy these conspiracy theories; when you've seen the complexity in the control room deep in the bowels of a warship, you'll understand how far removed the controller is from the outside world, and how easily mistakes can happen.
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Sorry you feel so hurt. Aircraft can be remotely taken over (see examples in my first post) Hard drives can be infected from production (stuxnet virus). Cyber war is real. No computer controlled "fly by wire" system is safe, sorry. Conspiracy theory, hehe. Normalcy bias, predictive programming, and cognitive dissidence does not allow anything but the approved govt. explanation.
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22-08-2017, 16:56
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Moana 33
Posts: 1,092
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz3
... The guy couldn't have passed my seventh grade english class, and he's an admiral.
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Correction - he was only a Rear-Admiral... you gotta make allowances.
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22-08-2017, 17:27
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 151
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Thank you. I feel better now!
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22-08-2017, 17:35
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,791
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish
Three ship collisions is a trend, not a simple accident. USN Lake Champlain, Fitzgerald, McCain. All in a 3 month period. China warned the US to stay away from disputed territory.
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Huge ship, little ship. Which has the greatest maneuverability?
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22-08-2017, 17:40
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Moana 33
Posts: 1,092
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish
Sorry you feel so hurt. ...
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Thanks Alaska, but I' don't feel hurt. I do feel for the kids who lost their lives, so apologies if some posts were a bit frivolous - no offence intended to anyone.
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