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Old 18-10-2016, 09:33   #16
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

I agree with all the truck it replies. I have done the Erie canal. You are not missing anything except noisy freight trains at night and you will miss the trees in the Hudson so get outta Dodge and enjoy the warmth. After paperwork of course. US Customs has great info on line to help you and numbers to call.
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Old 18-10-2016, 09:33   #17
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

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Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
First most of the boats are being hauled on the Great Lakes now. But, if you hurry and get a boat on Lake Erie or Ontario you might get everything done and get through the Canal before it closes for the winter around November 20.

Your plan is doable if all the parts fall into place but you'd better hurry. Getting cold up here fast!
^^^This. The boat I have for sale at Toronto is ready for launch with the bending on of sails. Were I you, I would bring the cradle in the spring, head for Oswago, dismast there, sawhorse the mast over the deck and lock down to the Hudson.

Doable, but a push. The lakes are still quite warm and are unlikely to ice over, but fog is consequently an issue at times.
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Old 18-10-2016, 09:40   #18
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

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Originally Posted by SV Bacchus View Post
Hijacking my own thread since this isn't a navigating question..

If I were to truck, anyone have even a ball park idea of the cost to ship a 40 foot, 13 ton, 5'7" draft vessel from Ontario to FL? Can it even be done?

If you have done it or know someone who has, can you, or would you, recommend the shipping company?
I had a Hunter 35.5 trucked from Annapolis to Kingston (East end of Lake Ontario). It cost about $3000 cdn. Would have been $2000 if I had been patient enough for them to fill the return ride...but I was eager to get my new boat, so I paid the penalty, and they drove back with an empty truck.

That was in 2000. So I would say double it for today...and add a few bucks for the extra distance...my guess $5000 to ship from the great lakes to FLA. The size of the boat is not relavant, so long as it fits on the truck. The size of the boat will determine the loading and unloading costs at the marinas at either end.

And YES, still time to go south from Lake Ontario (or Erie) this year...but as others have said...hurry!!! From Georgian Bay...not a chance. Its a week at least to get down to the lower lakes, and although you have the time, you will NOT get the weather windows you need. Its blowing and stormy here every day. Thunderstorms all this week, big winds...hey, its the roaring 40s!

On the other hand, there are a group of boats right now waiting at confederation basin, here in kingston, waiting for the hurricane season to end and head south via the oswego canal. I expect they will dash across the lake around the end of october, then take it easy through the canals keeping an eye out for a late hurricane. Then, the further south they get, the better the weather.

And finally, you put up the mast in Albany, at the top of the Hudson, the end of the Erie canal. Because the Hudson river is beautiful, and you can sail it, and its a sailboat...you will be much more comfortable with the mast up...no reason to wait for NYC.

Like everyone else said...much easier to truck if you are going far. The boat is being pulled out anyway, so not a big deal to load it on a truck instead. You don't have to be there when they load the boat...you just have to sign the cheques. If you are going to be a sailboat owner, you better practice doing that a lot...LOL.

The attached pic is a different boat I had shipped by truck. Trucking is awesome...really fast, you get your boat, not that expensive if you shop around.

Best of luck to you, and please let us know what happens...and don't forget the pictures!!!
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Old 18-10-2016, 09:42   #19
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

This wife HATES being cold and damp and would not be part of moving a boat from Georgian Bay this time of the year....Lake Huron can be very rough and icky....it could be an awesome trip that I would like to do about mid June!!!!
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:03   #20
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

My advice of a competitive sailor who now has a 60 foot power boat is to call Glen Stewart at Andrews Trucking in Niagara on the Lake and have him move it for you. You have to go down Lake Huron Lake St Clair Lake Erie the Welland canal or the Erie barge. Canal and down the Hudson or Oswego and down the Hudson. Sheer Madness.
Moved my boat from the Royal Canadian Yacht Club two weekends ago and we had 4 metre waves over our hard top and Even Lake Erie with the wind out of the south west was rough aa hell and I have 54 feet of waterline and a low CG. Trust me it's cold and miserable. I raced in a lot worse in the Fastnet and to Bermuda but I am sure you will enjoy you boat a lot more. Andrews has moved every one of my racing yachts from 41 to 50 feet with never an issue. Ever.
Give Glen a call you will be happy you did.
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:16   #21
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

I recently bought a 38' Shannon and sailed it from the Chesapeake Bay to NYC. The boat was/is in excellent shape with all systems operational and it passed the survey with flying colors. Even so, many issues came up getting it home: some expected and some unexpected. Normally, the time leading up to setting off on a cruise involves months of boat work and mental checklists. Even if the boat is in exceptional shape and "everything" is ready to go, you still don't want to rely on the previous owner and/or surveyor to do your preparation for you.

In short, add my vote to the option of trucking it or waiting until next season. Keeping your fingers crossed that no issues arise will most likely lead to major problems.
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:32   #22
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

Yup, everyone makes a lot of sense. I can slow down and proceed normally then truck it down.

OrangeCrush reminded me of my own personal Murphy's Law, somethins gunna break!

Ticocan thanks for the reference!

If anyone has another shipper they would recommend it would be appreciated. I do tend to shop around just to keep vendors honest.

If the bucket list draw gets strong sometime in the future I will volunteer free services to help crew for someone making the trip single-handed..
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:44   #23
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

I used Can Am Marine Transport. They were excellent. They also set me up with a customs broker, and the whole thing was easy...provided you know how to sign a cheque.

Can-Am Marine Transport Inc., moving boats across North America
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:50   #24
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

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Originally Posted by SV Bacchus View Post
Hi all,

Crazy question here but looking at a Canadian boat on the Great Lakes. I would like to fly up, look at it, strike a deal and hire a surveyor fairly quickly. But only go through this quickly business if there is a chance of getting the boat south this year.

Many years and many hours experience with power, scant few under sail.

Depending on what the consensus of Forum members is (yes, I love the wealth of knowledge and think good advice does come out of here or I wouldn't be here) the plan would be:

1. Boat negotiations would include present owner taking the boat, and me, down to the Erie Canal. I believe that is the way to get to the Atlantic from the Great lakes, correct?

2. Once mast is taken down and secured I would then motor across the canal, wife and I.

3. I would think it would be OK to motor down the Hudson to NY or does someone know a reason not to do so?

4. At NY get the mast stepped and hire a captain to take the wife and I south. The wife and I would benefit from the experience with the qualified captain.

Is the given route the right and best way to the Atlantic from the Great Lakes?

Does the plan to have seller move the boat to Buffalo and then I motor the canal and a captain sail us south sound reasonable?

What is the latest time of year this trip could be undertaken?

It may be a pipe dream to think this could happen this year but I would hate to wait until the thaw to move the vessel.
A) Don't ever count on starting and finishing a trip as a definite date. Things happen, snafus show up, things that seemed AOK go south, weather changes. In short plan on a leisurely trip with frequent overnights and stops.
B) Consider Chicago and south on the Mississippi - Still great lakes can change on a dime this time of year. Even in the summer the weather can get scary quickly.
C) If you chose the Erie Canal go south to Oswego across lake Ontario, south on the Oswego Canal to Brewerton, cross Lake Oneida and then East to Albany. If this is your choice you better get moving, most of the Canadian snow birds have already passed our place in Sylvan Beach - east end of Oneida Lake. Then consider the ICW south. I don't believe you want to chance open ocean in Hurricane season.
D) Weighing the cost of the trip, seriously consider trucking. Even at 5 G your probably going to come out ahead. Hauling runs between $2.50 to $4 a mile with loading, wrapping, trailer blocking ect extra.
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Old 18-10-2016, 11:08   #25
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

Well, everyone has an opinion, right?
I have done the trip you are planning several times, using several different routes, in a number of different boats. My take on your plan?
1. If you just want the boat back home, truck it.
2. If the voyage is more important than the destination, then you are missing the opportunity to cruise some pretty amazing areas by trucking it!
I would suggest taking all next summer and fall to get her home on her own bottom. Georgian Bay is an incredible cruising ground. The Trent Canal System is an experience worth enjoying. Likewise, the Erie Canal, if you take your time to enjoy what it offers.
3. Unless you are an extreme masochist, I agree with others that it is not doable from Georgian Bay this late in the season. The Trent closed on Oct.10, so you would have to go down Lake Huron, through St. Clair and Lake Erie. I AM a bit of a masochist (after all, I have been sailing single-handed in an open cockpit schooner for thirty years!) and I would not even consider doing that trip this late in the year! Even if you could do it, there would be no fun involved, and you'd miss so much of what this area has to offer.
Hell, you're buying a boat in sailing paradise, and you're not even going to sample the cruising available here?!! Reminds me of a couple of Loopers that just passed through the North Channel here - they anchored in a pretty dismal little harbour just 30 minutes south of the three jewels of the North Channel (Benjamins/Croker/Fox Island) and didn't even know what they missed!
But hey, it is your boat, and if your schedule doesn't allow a little exploring before you get home, .......... my sympathies!
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Old 18-10-2016, 11:30   #26
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

Bacchus, your timing is amazing. I too am sniffing around a Great Lakes boat. Just got off of the phone with the broker minutes ago. All of the above advice is exactly as he said about getting her south via the Erie canal.

If you buy the boat in Canada you might want to consider leaving it there for a year. You will avoid paying taxes to Uncle Sam. If the boat was built in America you won't owe any duty on the boat. Since you are American you will not have to pay Canadian tax. You will have to buy a cruising permit ( if I understood everything correctly). Canada is so lush and beautiful once she warms up. You may never make it up that way again...do you really want to miss out on that? Take it slow and enjoy it. I don't think you'll regret it.
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Old 18-10-2016, 11:31   #27
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

Hey Bacchus
I also used Andrews Trucking in Niagara on the Lake, ON to haul my Mirage 24 from Georgian Bay to Lake Ontario and they are awesome. Their equipment is all first class hydraulic lift boat hauling equipment and the really know their business. Here are their coordinates:

Andrews Trucking Ltd.
1-800-231-0931
Andrews Trucking Ltd.

Another hauler in this area that comes highly recommended is:

Van Tuyl Trucking Inc.
Wellandport Ontario
905-386-6817
Van Tuyl Trucking Inc. Marine Transport

I was looking at both of these companies to haul my boat and Andrews was able to pick up a boat in Niagara to haul up to Georgian Bay and then pick up mine for the return trip so I saved about 1/3 of what it would have cost me for the to go up empty.

Good Luck!
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Old 18-10-2016, 12:01   #28
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

Are you Canadian or American. As a Canadian you cannot flag the vessel as US Registry. You will have to register the vessel as Canadian flagged. You will also be obligated to take the vessel foriegn for 15 days every calendar year unless it is US manufactured. Contact CBP regarding the process as I have had different feedback from different CBP officers.
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Old 18-10-2016, 12:18   #29
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

call dave at loyalist marine in Bath ont. he can ship boats of any size anywhere..
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Old 18-10-2016, 12:48   #30
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Re: How late in the year can you sail south out of Canada?

In answer to the OP's question, you can sail south anytime provided the ice is out of the lake. I have delivered vessels from Alaska to SoCal in Jan-Feb on the west coast. Not that I would advise it unless you want to get your brains beat out by weather and atrocious seas, but it is doable. It all depends upon what the owner is willing to stand re gear breakage, blown sails and other damage. Some owners are so anxious to get their vessel to where they are, they just don't care! Phil
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