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Old 11-12-2007, 17:35   #16
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Hey Kanani how do you get such good definition, I assume you are using google?
All I get is lighter coloured blob when I zoom in. What is the secret?
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Old 11-12-2007, 17:36   #17
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I personally think that chart plotters are robbing sailors of the rewarding skill of doing your own plotting by hand.
Whenever I wonder about technology discussions I am reminded of Captain Cook in his decision to base his work using a Chronometer... "ahhh that new fangled gadget will slow down and be unreliable at sea... a real navigator doesn't need a chronometer, Cook!"

If Cook were here today would he be making paper charts or digital?
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Old 11-12-2007, 17:38   #18
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Hey Kanani how do you get such good definition, I assume you are using google?
All I get is lighter coloured blob when I zoom in. What is the secret?
Google Image Search Nice shipwreck piccies on there too
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Old 11-12-2007, 17:57   #19
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Google Image Search Nice shipwreck piccies on there too
That one freighter is the "Runick" it went up there in '64. When I was there in '87 we were able to climb around inside of the wreck. The Aussie gvm't even put supplies in there for ship wrecked sailors. There were solar panels and a light on her bow.

When we were there in '96, the wreck was extremely dangerous to even get close to.

The anchorage is about 150-200 yards south of the Runick.

There are a lot of intersesting wrecks there. Some of them are just off of the edge of the reef in about 90' of water. I dove on a few of them, hoping to find treasure (no such luck).

The story behind the Runick is very interesting. I'll try to dig it up and post it. In short, they tried to row the life-boats to Lord Howle Island but couldn't buck the winds. They ended up rowing them 400 miles to Sydney. They started out with 3 boats and arrived in Sydney with 1, all but 1 hand accounted for. He died in the enitial crash with the reef.

that Captain was some kinda hero in my book.
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Old 11-12-2007, 18:01   #20
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Hey Kanani how do you get such good definition, I assume you are using google?
All I get is lighter coloured blob when I zoom in. What is the secret?
I did a Google search on "Middleton Reef" and another one on "Elizabeth Reef". I've had those pictures on my computer for a while now.
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Old 11-12-2007, 18:12   #21
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Whenever I wonder about technology discussions I am reminded of Captain Cook in his decision to base his work using a Chronometer... "ahhh that new fangled gadget will slow down and be unreliable at sea... a real navigator doesn't need a chronometer, Cook!"

If Cook were here today would he be making paper charts or digital?
Captain Cook was an amazing person. I have used his charts in many areas of the world. They are amazingly accurate in composition, even if they are off by GPS position a little. His charts always had hand drawn horizontal images of the area from a particular compass heading. That was really cool.

The fact is, once you know where you are + or- 1/2 mile, you should be able to read the chart and use your compass to verify your position on the chart. Your "Actual" position is really, relatively un-important. Unless, of course, you are using a chart plotter with exact GPS coordinates on it. However, if something fails and you have to then rely on your paper charts, you may have a hard time figuring out where you are.

What is important is your relative position in relationship to whatever chart that you are using. Your exact position is merely a state of mind. For instance, the French used to use Paris as "0 Meridian" for charting. I've gotten my hands on a few of those at times and got really screwed up. It was just a state of mind.
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Old 11-12-2007, 19:18   #22
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[quote=Kanani;117758] the French used to use Paris as "0 Meridian" for charting. I've gotten my hands on a few of those at times and got really screwed up. It was just a state of mind.[/quote]

Read the charts with a French accent then you'll be fine
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:16   #23
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One lightning strike can ruin your whole day. I think I will stick to my paper charts.
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:37   #24
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One lightning strike can ruin your whole day. I think I will stick to my paper charts.
One spilled coffee.........
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:05   #25
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I am a little surprised by the assumption of either / or when it comes to paper charts and GPS chartplotters. We always carry both, although we usually buy the 2/3 rds size black and white “portfolios” from www.tidesend.com . We may not have the most detailed paper charts but what we carry are used for planning and for the possible lightning strike (We have had lightning damage on three occasions). The coffee spilled on the chartplotter just involves clean up and that is why I prefer such to using a laptop. Having said that, we do carry two laptops on board with identical software installed and either will substitute for the chartplotter in reading and plotting electronic charts. We carry a complete spare for the installed GPS plus two hand held units. One lives in the abandonship bag and the other lives in the microwave oven when the latter is not in use. The hope is that the microwave oven will act as a Faraday cage during a catastrophic lightning hit and protect the GPS unit within (plus my wife’s iPod of course!). If this fails, we carry a sextant plus the current Nautical Almanac.

To handle the potential loss of position data, we keep a hand-written paper log with time, position, course and speed that is updated every watch change. From this we can produce an estimated position on a paper chart within minutes of the loss of electronic charting.

On a slightly different subject, most early charting was performed with sextant and chronometer to determine longitude. The latitude on early maps is usually very close to GPS positions but the longitude can be up to a minute off = one Nautical mile. That was considered pretty good and is better than I usually get with a sextant (although Cook and others may have had more practice than me). The shape of the coastlines is usually good and it is only necessary to move the longitude of your waypoints over a little when using electronic charting.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:44   #26
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I guess the thinking for me and some other folks is paper charts 'or' chart plotter. Having not been a CEO pulling down six figures a year, it usually comes down to one or the other. This of course is the cost factor. I do carry 2 handheld GPS's and a fixed. This is only due to me upgrading every five to ten years with the hand helds. If I had a more than modest cash flow, I would have a plotter and paper. As I would a larger boat, fancier electronics and who knows, perhaps a helo-pad
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:59   #27
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The title to Mark’s thread was “How do I know if the chart is wrong” and then he mentions “modern digital charts”. I just spent $1,045 at www.tidesend.com for electronic charts and $89 for the paper versions. I have multiple handheld GPS units for the same reason as most everyone else. The older ones are steam powered but I just can’t bring myself to throw them away. My feeling is that if you have just dropped a grand on electronic charts, you don’t have to be Bill Gates to drop another 89 bucks for a paper back-up. BTW, I hate helicopters.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:52   #28
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Ha ha Ed...Good post...I'm the same way. I just cannot stand to throw away a perfectly good GPS even if it looks like a brick. I can spend $100 on charts(used) but not $1000 0n e-charts. However, I rarely spend $60K on a boat either. However I do splurge occasionally...Pass the Grey Poupon!
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