Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-01-2013, 13:23   #1
MSc
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6
HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Let me introduce myself and my reasons for joining the forum. I work for the RNLI and am undertaking a MSc in Maritime studies at Portsmouth University. The aim of the research is to determine if leisure craft users and professional mariners are being best served by the navigation equipment in use by them at sea. Is the equipment displaying information and hazards sufficiently and correctly to allow a skilled or semi-skilled navigator to navigate safely and determine if he is in danger or at risk. How does the user interact with the navigation display? Is the menu system intuitive and does the display provide enough resolution for users to easily determine dangers to navigation? Does the system allow for other sensors to add to the display such as Automatic Identification System(AIS), echo sounder, radar. Also are the various technical standards compatible across different navigations systems? If so does this information provide additional information or does it run the risk of overwhelming the individual. Is the over-reliance on these navigational aids, the total acceptance that what they display is correct actually making it more unsafe for users who could then become the casualty in SAR?
My reasons for joining are to canvas other forum users for any personal experiences they have had where their electronic navigation equipment has failed. Failed in the sense of not working in total or not working correctly and so leaving them in danger of grounding. Has the chart updates been late in coming or non existent. If upon buying new equipment or using equipment that they are not familiar with they have been overwhelmed with the information supplied to them. Do many users have AIS/Radar/echo sounder feeds into their navigation system display. Would anyone like to relate a story where they have found themselves at risk due to navigating using only electronic navigation aids? I can assure anonymity.
If you have any good experiences of utilising the cutting edge technology to assist in your navigation they would also be greatly appreciated. Be it a faster appreciation of the surrounding area using an electronic display or it's ease of operation in wet environments compared to paper charts all would be appreciated.
I have been granted access to all the RNLI records for my research but only to gather statistics. Which is why I have to reach out to others for specific examples and others thoughts. My aim is to be able to provide the RNLI with recommendations for the future provision of training and sea safety advice. I can be contacted via this website or PM me here.
__________________

__________________
MSc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2013, 14:13   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Sorry, what is RNLI?

I just did a search...is it this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_N...at_Institution

So much of safety relating to navigation depends on who has the con.
__________________

__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2013, 22:05   #3
Registered User
 
HappySeagull's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: B.C.,Canada
Boat: 29'
Posts: 2,395
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Too many lines to read between!
Is this specific to the UK?
Have you searched the forums?
Is Hearsay Allowed?
__________________
HappySeagull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2013, 22:06   #4
Registered User
 
HappySeagull's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: B.C.,Canada
Boat: 29'
Posts: 2,395
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Too many lines to read between!
Is this specific to the UK?
Have you searched the forums?
Is Hearsay Allowed?
__________________
HappySeagull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2013, 08:59   #5
MSc
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Thank you, I agree it does depend on who's got the con. Part of what I'm looking at is the advent of electronic navigation making going to sea more accessible and so less experienced individuals getting themselves into bother. I am looking at the UK but interested around the world. I'm always open to hearsay
__________________
MSc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2013, 09:00   #6
Registered User
 
HappySeagull's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: B.C.,Canada
Boat: 29'
Posts: 2,395
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

...humbly suggest you build a form with checkboxes... and upload as attachment?
__________________
HappySeagull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2013, 09:35   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,374
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Almost all the questions you ask will be based on the manufacturer and/or model of navigation device. The variations from one the other are very significant.

Some navigation devices will give only GPS position in lat/lon. Some will have a screen to show your position graphically. The next model will show position graphically on a marine chart which will include channel markers, depths, hazards, etc.

Next higher model will allow interface with input from other devices including: fathometer, radar, AIS, etc. Generally these may be options or modular so one skipper may buy the basic unit with only position and chart display and another may have the same model with all the goodies including radar.

Next the interface is different from model to model and certainly manufacturer to manufacturer. Some models use touch screens, some buttons that open menus, some both. Every manufacturer uses a different menu system and some are certainly better and more intuitive than others.

Then different users relate differently to different systems so what is clear and easy to use for one person may be difficult and obscure to another. However, tThis I think is much less significant than the differences between models and brands.

So the answers will vary dramatically depending on which unit the boater is using.

Regarding the technology in general, I think in most ways it makes navigation easier, position finding faster and more accurate, and generally makes boating safer. The downside is that electronic navigation can make the process so simple that it can encourage the inexperienced to go beyond their capabilities and can let the boater get a bit lazy in monitoring the boats position and maintaining basic navigation skills. A common complaint based on many actual boating accidents, a skipper is staring at the chart screen and not looking out at the real world and runs into a navigation marker or another boat in broad daylight.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2013, 10:27   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

There always have been and always will be people with poor judgement. I can remember before the days of GPS people with no clue in the world that there is a difference between true north and magnetic north, for example, sailing between Poole and Cherbourg. In my opinion, modern navigation instruments probably do not materially increase the number of idiots going to sea but make going to sea safer for the idiots who do.
__________________
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2013, 10:40   #9
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Quote:
In my opinion, modern navigation instruments probably do not materially increase the number of idiots going to sea but make going to sea safer for the idiots who do.
+1

dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2013, 10:50   #10
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,554
Images: 14
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Keys on the Interphase Pilot GPS started to get sticky going past Cape Wrath, by the time we got to the Pentland Firth there were 3 meter waves and our 17 foot open boat was awash. The GPS failed completely leaving us with the menu screen which gave absolutely no navigation information. Any one of the 6 other screens would have helped but not the menu screen. We navigated the remaining 80 miles to Inverness by memory and running time, speed, distance calculations, the chart having been lost overboard at Cape Wrath when it was blown completely out of my hands.

A memorable trip for nights in front of log fires with a bottle of Pussers Rum.

Pete
__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2013, 12:35   #11
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

If asking some anonymous folks on the internet for some anecdotes counts as research - then simply do a search, quite a few Electronic vs Paper etc threads to choose from (wade through?!), a couple even currently live.

Then pick the story / view you want.

Unless that a little bit too much effort........
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2013, 12:43   #12
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,939
Images: 1
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

As skipmac noted. Lots of difference between various manufactures. Lots of idiots setting sail. But probably more arrive safely since chartplotters than did before they were invented
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2013, 12:45   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,374
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
In my opinion, modern navigation instruments probably do not materially increase the number of idiots going to sea
I guess that would depend on your definition of materially. I have personally run into more than a few boaters that "expanded their horizons" mainly because they believed a GPS chart plotter would make it safe to do so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
In my opinion, modern navigation instruments make going to sea safer for the idiots who do.
Oh I totally agree and am not against modern nav electronics in any way. Not only safer for idiots but experienced boaters as well.

The other issue is that even experienced boaters can get complacent depending on AP and chart plotters. I wanted to charter a large cruising cat a few years ago but the previous charter with a well known and experienced professional captain ran head on into a channel marker in the keys because the captain set the AP and went below for a cup of coffee and lost track of the time.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2013, 04:44   #14
Registered User
 
Thonord's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oslo Norway
Boat: Vessel-less
Posts: 17
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

The introduction of electronic chartplotters in pleasurecraft is the greatest detriment to safety ever.

Not because of digital charts, but because of the marriage of plotters and electronic (now GPS) navigation systems.

Navigation is no longer a requirement. A power failure is a May-Day situation.

There is now, in Norway, a mandatory licence for small pleasure craft as well. Its a step in the right direction, but does not include any practical skills.

Should electronic plotters be banned? Of course not. They are great!

Edited:
Oh well, this was a redundant entry!

Msg to self: Read entire thread before jumping in.
Sorry
__________________
Thonord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2013, 14:00   #15
MSc
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6
Re: HELP NEEDED FOR MSc RESEARCH

Guys thank you for your input I do appreciate the interest sparked and discussion. Thonord I wasn't aware that Norway had introduced a licence system I'll have to research it. As Happy Seagull recommended I'm writing a questionnaire on Survey Monkey that will allow me to crunch the data. Please keep the comments coming, any tales of woe that I can reconcile with source evidence is very much appreciated.
__________________

__________________
MSc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
arc, research

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.