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Old 25-06-2008, 07:07   #61
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GEEEEZEEEEE!

I am 57, and if my 5th grade teacher could predict this oil problem, over population, solar, wind, and everything else on this thread. Then where were all the intelligent people running this country. Running to the bank with the easy money. We should have started a new course 50 years ago!

I have navigated around oil rigs, and don't find them a danger at all. About the 2month old chart with no marking of the rig? That is what the MARINER'S NOTICE is all about. I personally find the windmills quite graceful that stand in the Altamont Pass. We have allowed ourselves to be put in this situation. A loud, and strong voice at the polls is the only thing that will change it.

We can't depend on our government, and business to change things. They are enjoying the easy money. Our forefathers put their lives on the line, so we could have the power to change things.

Sorry about the politcal twist, but sometimes a person has to vent....ON WITH THE THREAD......LOLOLOLOL
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Old 25-06-2008, 15:10   #62
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Originally Posted by bobsadler View Post
if you can't spot a drilling rig or production platform at night you shouldn't be out alone

Well duh.... but those who have been out there know that the vast majority of structures are much smaller and often unlit. And from personal experience I can tell you that on a moonless night in a field of flashing white lights, knowing that one light is placed on a loose grouping of 3/4/several standpipes / structures, there is not much comfort to be found. If you're outside of the charted Safety Fairways you are at risk.

This thread title is dead-on, "Hazard to Navigation." To me it is nearly criminal that the oil companies are allowed to leave abandoned structures all over the place, and that enforcement of existing rules / laws regarding hazards to navigation has apparently taken a back seat.

I truly believe that they get away with it because it's out of sight and out of mind. Beyond the 8-mile visible horizon most people have no clue what's being done. Leave some abandoned rusting hulks in Biscayne Bay for a while and see what happens..

My $0.02....

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Old 25-06-2008, 16:07   #63
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... This thread title is dead-on, "Hazard to Navigation." To me it is nearly criminal that the oil companies are allowed to leave abandoned structures all over the place ...
I thought that US Law (OCSLA) required obsolete oil rigs be decommissioned & removed, or turned into artificial reefs(RTR) - and didn't permit abandoned rigs to remain in situ.
Are rigs actually left unlit & unmanned on the surface?
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Old 26-06-2008, 08:37   #64
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In my experience - yes. The damaged rigs from Katrina have still not been cleaned up - except for perhaps the ones that are / were producing above certain levels. I'm not employed in the industry so I'll defer to those who are. In February 2006 I reviewed an oil fields map / grid for the Gulf Coast that showed more than 250 known damaged rigs / structures. Had quite an interesting discussion with the captain of an oil fields service tug about the magnitude of the situation.

The sheer volume of structures out there with apparent lack of activity makes me believe that they are in fact not being dismantled as they should. Maybe the rising price of scrap steel will change that - if it has not already.
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Old 26-06-2008, 10:10   #65
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Mark, it could also be that with the press to put everything into production that can produce, and the huge number of damaged rigs, there are simply not enough crews to address the demolition/repair issues on everything. That's no excuse for at least marking them with lighted buoys, of course.
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Old 26-06-2008, 12:37   #66
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Please note you said: "When I was a kid". Same thing here, 40 years ago. Those same beaches, at the Jersey Shore, are now free of "tar". We have no "tar" on Texas beaches either...

The "tar" was from cleaning the insides of tankers after delivery - which is MOSTLY a thing of the past. Seems that tankers are paid on how much they pick up, not deliver, and they rinsed the leftovers out into the sea to make room for the new load.

Oh, yeah. You're right. If CLINTON had allowed drilling 8 years ago, they would be PRODUCING now...
It's a nice assumption that a lot of folks make. Unfortunately, it's a false assumption. The native Indians used beach tar long ago.

It's a natural seepage from the bottom. And naturally it's where we place drilling rigs!!

http://www.chevron.com/products/site...ells_sheet.pdf
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Old 26-06-2008, 12:49   #67
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It's a nice assumption that a lot of folks make. Unfortunately, it's a false assumption. The native Indians used beach tar long ago.

It's a natural seepage from the bottom. And naturally it's where we place drilling rigs!!

http://www.chevron.com/products/site...ells_sheet.pdf

When you think about it, chevron isn't the most unbiased source for this to come from. Not that I really trust anything that's said about oil anymore, but if you're asking an oil company if they're polluting, and there's any way they can lay the blame on something else, especially something "natural", they probably will.

I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm just saying I don't entirely trust that article.
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Old 27-06-2008, 20:39   #68
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I'm much more concerned about hitting one of these, in terms of navigation hazards: Shipping containers (navigation hazard)
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Old 27-06-2008, 22:27   #69
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we do not have to drill off fla others will

one of the disturbing issues in fla and south are the castro brothers - and no i am not cuban - but the brothers have gotten together with the chinese to drill oil wells off south fla - now if you think of it it is only 90 for kw to havana and with not so nice weather in the straits oil wells could present a hazard - let us not even discuss the great environmental records for the cubans and chinese as any spill or seepage will go north to the bahamas or fla
now if you ask me we can either buy oil from castro or drill for it ourselves and get a bit cheaper and probably a lot more environmentally friendly and the wells would at least be marked are shown on maps and notice to mariners
just my thought
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Old 28-06-2008, 02:47   #70
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one of the disturbing issues in fla and south are the castro brothers - and no i am not cuban - but the brothers have gotten together with the chinese to drill oil wells off south fla ...
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You should check your sources. Neither the Miami Herald, nor Dick Cheney are flawless.
Claims that China is drilling for oil off the coast of Cuba are unfounded.

Vice President Dick Cheney said in a speech to the US Chamber of Commerce: “... George Will pointed out in his column the other day that oil is being drilled right now 60 miles off the coast of Florida. But we're not doing it; the Chinese are, in cooperation with the Cuban government. Even the communists have figured out that a good answer to high prices is more supply ...”

China-Cuba rumors fuel renewed offshore drilling debate - 06/12/2008 - MiamiHerald.com


Vice President Dick Cheney’s office acknowledged the next day that he was mistaken when he asserted that China, at Cuba’s behest, is drilling for oil in waters 60 miles from the Florida coast. Cheney’s office said in a statement to The Associated Press that the vice president had erred.
“It is our understanding that, although Cuba has leased out exploration blocks 60 miles off the coast of southern Florida, which is closer than American firms are allowed to operate in that area, no Chinese firm is drilling there,” according to the statement.


The Associated Press: Cheney's false comment on oil drilling attacked

Cheney oil comment attacked - The White House - MSNBC.com
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Old 28-06-2008, 09:21   #71
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one of the disturbing issues in fla and south are the castro brothers - and no i am not cuban - but the brothers have gotten together with the chinese to drill oil wells off south fla - now if you think of it it is only 90 for kw to havana and with not so nice weather in the straits oil wells could present a hazard - let us not even discuss the great environmental records for the cubans and chinese as any spill or seepage will go north to the bahamas or fla
now if you ask me we can either buy oil from castro or drill for it ourselves and get a bit cheaper and probably a lot more environmentally friendly and the wells would at least be marked are shown on maps and notice to mariners
just my thought
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If we can drill for oil half way to Cuba then Cuba can drill for oil half way to the US, right?
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Old 30-06-2008, 03:33   #72
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therapy: right, and if you've ever seen oilfields in communist (or ex-communist) areas you'll know why you'd rather have exxon-mobil, bp or shell in there doing the drilling for you

mark: everywhere in the western world oil companies are required to dismantle and remove offshore structures once they have been decommissioned. in the gulf of mexico some structures have been collapsed onto the seabed to act as reefs but this is with the consent of the m.m.s. (i.e. gov't)

sluissa: i can remember flying out across the santa barbara channel years ago (early 80s) and noting a large oil slick off the point by ucsb. i commented on this to a local saying that i was surprised that that level of pollution would be tolerated in sth cal (not to mention right in front of ucsb). it turns out it was a natural seep.
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Old 30-06-2008, 06:00   #73
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The rigs in the Santa Barbara channel are well lit, but they are surrounded by large steel unlit mooring balls, which would ruin your night. There is a point west of the city which was named 'Coal Oil Point' long before oil drilling, and I have had to clean the sides of the boat off after sailing past it.

If you come up the Gulf of Suez, you would have to thread your way through numerous abandoned and unlit wells, and they weren't left by the 'Commies'.
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Old 30-06-2008, 06:31   #74
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no, but they were almost certainly left by egypt's national (i.e. state) oil company which, while not a communist "enterprise", is about the next best thing
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Old 30-06-2008, 15:05   #75
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therapy: right, and if you've ever seen oilfields in communist (or ex-communist) areas you'll know why you'd rather have exxon-mobil, bp or shell in there doing the drilling for you

.
If there were Shell, BP and Exxon rigs there, there is nothing to stop them from putting one (or two) out there anyway.
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