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Old 26-05-2018, 21:31   #1
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Hampton, VA to NYC

Hello,
I am about to purchase a new to me 30 ft over 5 ton junk rig schooner. I am trying to plan a route sometime between June and July to head up north to NYC. Anyone have route suggestions? I was figuring to try and take the Gulf Stream north. About how long have you all taken out at sea to complete this route? Any tips? Suggestions?

Thanks
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Old 27-05-2018, 04:55   #2
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

Take a look at (click on) the "Cruising Tips" on the Fleetwing "Blog" and particularly the SPOT Track for the last 7 days. This couple makes the trip from NY to Key West and back annually and have a great deal of useful information available. There current 7 day track is just what you need.

FWIW...
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Old 27-05-2018, 05:22   #3
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

Offshore, how long will it take? Depends on the weather and the boat. I've done it in two days on a fast boat on a beam reach.

I'm going to suggest that with a new-to-you boat you don't want your first voyage to be offshore if it's easily preventable, and for this route it is. Up the Chesapeake, through the C&D canal, down the Delaware River and then up the Jersey coast. In your boat, 5-6 days would be a comfortable estimate but depends on motoring speed and what kind of weather you have when you reach Cape May.

If you have a high degree of confidence in the boat and the forecast looks good, you could maybe make it in 3-4 days offshore if everything went well. That might be optimistic...30' junk rig... I assume you might see six knots and change under perfect conditions.
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Old 27-05-2018, 05:33   #4
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jphleba View Post
Hello,
I am about to purchase a new to me 30 ft over 5 ton junk rig schooner. I am trying to plan a route sometime between June and July to head up north to NYC. Anyone have route suggestions? I was figuring to try and take the Gulf Stream north. About how long have you all taken out at sea to complete this route? Any tips? Suggestions?

Thanks
Howdy and Welcome Aboard CF!

You could stay closer to land (not in GS) and be there in 3-5 days, depending upon Boat speed sailing or motoring or motorsailing.

From what I understand, junk rigged boats are designed for winds behind the beam and not known for windward pointing ability.

So if I were in your boatshoes I would make sure the engine is sound, change the oil, take spare fuel filters and raw water impellers, wait for a weather window that shows southerly winds for 3-4 days. Check Windy.com or your favorite weather forecaster. I found Windy to be very accurate to conditions observed.

I just got off a boat that went from Hampton-Norfolk (we fueled in Blue Water marina across from Hampton University) past the NYC TSS. As I recall, it was about 48-72 hours of motorsailing at 7 knots to reach that point. I watched Windy.com, and we waited till the winds turned to Southerly. We sailed somewhat close to the Maryland and New Jersey shores, able to see the lights on shore during night.

Be on the lookout for fishing boats and commercial vessels and tugs with tows. Make sure you have Marine binoculars to identify ship's lights at night, use reference images to be sure. We saw several tugs with poorly lit barges. Crossing a towline is very dangerous so give them careful attention and look for a barge behind any brightly lit tug boats. It will be hundreds of feet behind the tug. I saw one as a huge black shape moving against the night sky glow. It was impossible to see lights on the barge with naked eyes. If you have AIS use it. If you have RADAR use it in fog, as we sailed through some fog too. Some sportsfisher boats did not show up on RADAR. Stay alert.

Hope that helps. Bon Voyage!
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Old 27-05-2018, 05:38   #5
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

Thank you sooo much for the input!!! I will take this all into consideration!
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Old 27-05-2018, 09:37   #6
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

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Originally Posted by Jphleba View Post
Hello,
I am about to purchase a new to me 30 ft over 5 ton junk rig schooner. I am trying to plan a route sometime between June and July to head up north to NYC. Anyone have route suggestions? I was figuring to try and take the Gulf Stream north. About how long have you all taken out at sea to complete this route? Any tips? Suggestions?

Thanks

First of all you can't take the Gulf Stream to NYC from Hampton, VA. The Stream runs up the East coast of the US from the Gulf, hits Hatteras and then heads off to Europe.



Since it is a "new to you" boat, the advice you have received regarding the Chesapeake to the C&D canal is excellent. In that way, you'll be shaking down the boat and leaning it before going into the Atlantic. Also if you have problems with systems, there are numerous marinas and yards along the way on the Chesapeake where you can stop to solve them.
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Old 27-05-2018, 09:55   #7
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

Thank you so much!! I will look into this route. I guess I can wait to do an actual ocean crossing until I’m ready to head to the keys.
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Old 27-05-2018, 10:20   #8
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

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First of all you can't take the Gulf Stream to NYC from Hampton, VA. The Stream runs up the East coast of the US from the Gulf, hits Hatteras and then heads off to Europe.



Since it is a "new to you" boat, the advice you have received regarding the Chesapeake to the C&D canal is excellent. In that way, you'll be shaking down the boat and leaning it before going into the Atlantic. Also if you have problems with systems, there are numerous marinas and yards along the way on the Chesapeake where you can stop to solve them.
Great advice. There's not much available on the outside from the mouth of the Chesapeake to the Delaware River.
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Old 27-05-2018, 10:24   #9
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roniszoro View Post
First of all you can't take the Gulf Stream to NYC from Hampton, VA. The Stream runs up the East coast of the US from the Gulf, hits Hatteras and then heads off to Europe.



Since it is a "new to you" boat, the advice you have received regarding the Chesapeake to the C&D canal is excellent. In that way, you'll be shaking down the boat and leaning it before going into the Atlantic. Also if you have problems with systems, there are numerous marinas and yards along the way on the Chesapeake where you can stop to solve them.
Good advice.
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Old 27-05-2018, 10:47   #10
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

While going all the way up the Bay, thru the the C&D Canal, and then back down Delaware Bay is going WAY out of the way......It would provide for a great "shake down" prior to going offshore. Keeping in mind that BOTH Bays can get plenty angry at times.
It seems to me that you are obviously at the beginning of the whole thing so lots of reading, and LOTS of studying Charts, Rules of the Road, etc are in order.
Some planning for bail out options needs to happen as many of the visible inlets along the MD, NJ Coast are NOT usable, and the ones that are can be tricky in less than the best weather.
THEN.... if you are going into NY Harbor, you need to know your stuff because there is a huge amount of traffic, involving all manner of boat and ship types. Its close quarters traffic and much of it is moving quite fast.
You are also dealing with tidal currents that you may or may not be familiar with.
You will HAVE to go offshore for much of the trip as the NJ section of the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway is very shallow, and has many low bridges.
Stops in Cape May, and Atlantic City can be a nice break, and bail out points.
Do your homework, make sure your skills and your vessel are sound, and when the time is right make the trip and it will be great......sometimes scary, often boring, can be frustrating, but not will be great.
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Old 27-05-2018, 11:11   #11
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

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While going all the way up the Bay, thru the the C&D Canal, and then back down Delaware Bay is going WAY out of the way......It would provide for a great "shake down" prior to going offshore. Keeping in mind that BOTH Bays can get plenty angry at times.
It seems to me that you are obviously at the beginning of the whole thing so lots of reading, and LOTS of studying Charts, Rules of the Road, etc are in order.
Some planning for bail out options needs to happen as many of the visible inlets along the MD, NJ Coast are NOT usable, and the ones that are can be tricky in less than the best weather.
THEN.... if you are going into NY Harbor, you need to know your stuff because there is a huge amount of traffic, involving all manner of boat and ship types. Its close quarters traffic and much of it is moving quite fast.
You are also dealing with tidal currents that you may or may not be familiar with.
You will HAVE to go offshore for much of the trip as the NJ section of the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway is very shallow, and has many low bridges.
Stops in Cape May, and Atlantic City can be a nice break, and bail out points.
Do your homework, make sure your skills and your vessel are sound, and when the time is right make the trip and it will be great......sometimes scary, often boring, can be frustrating, but not will be great.
Good advice. Barnegat Inlet is also a good anchoring spot about half way up the coast.
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Old 27-05-2018, 11:34   #12
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

This is actually a great "first trip" to learn your boat.

Definitely go up the Chesapeake through the C&D and down the Delaware. While it can be choppy, you are in protected waters and always very close to a good harbor. If you have the time, take in the history of the region. It will also teach you about tides and currents as both bays have plenty

The other route - going outside from Hampton to Cape May -- means a long overnight (30+ hours at your likely speed) with only one safe harbor along the route. Not a novice trip.

From Cape May to NYC you are outside but there are several good stops and it's only 100 miles to protection at Sandy Hook. I would plan to stop for the night half-way at Barnegat Bay. But wait in Cape May until you have a good weather forecast. The NJ coast is not a place for you in a strong NE or E wind. But if the forecast is a perfect southerly and you feel confident in yourself and the boat after the four or five days, you could go overnight under the stars --- in the early morning passing under the Verrazano Bridge and sailing past the Statue of Liberty. A bucket list item.
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Old 27-05-2018, 11:48   #13
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

Your NYC "target" is most likely going to be the Ambrose light tower. And, literally, someone winds up hitting that every so often. A lot of traffic converges out there and you need to assume a lot of the commercial traffic, including fishing boats, is NOT keeping watch, keep your head up. From Ambrose you can pretty much pilot your way in, day or night, plenty of easy visuals.

Do beware that the entire NJ coast, every inlet, can be a dangerous lee shore in heavy weather, especially when the wind and current are opposite. So you may want to plan your weather window to make sure you won't have to run any of those inlets, shelter is not an option there is the weather is adverse. In good weather...that's different.

If you are planning to enter NY harbor, take a close look at the charts. There are some "general anchorages" where you can drop the hook for free, lots of foul ground, and post-9/11 a number of "keep away" zones, where the Coasties will get very upset if you wander in too close. A copy of "Eldridge", any year, will give you tidal current charts that can make passage through NYC much happier.

And then there's Commandment #11: Thou shalt not upset the Staten Island Ferry. Yes, they do own the harbor. Perhaps sharing it with the Liberty Island ferry, but that's all.
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Old 27-05-2018, 13:11   #14
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

Another reason why going outside is not necessarily faster, even if you're going 24/7, is that you could spend a few days or more cooling your heels in Hampton waiting for a weather window, whereas you could pretty much take off right away up the Chesapeake and get going. The lower Chesapeake however is not to be taken for granted at "sheltered water" so you still need to mind the forecast.

A word of warning about inlets along the Jersey shore; they can be treacherous when the wind sets up against the tide, with standing waves that can be a real bear to deal with. Do NOT attempt to exit or enter under those conditions.

If you do enter Barnegat Inlet you pretty much have to go straight to the nearest anchorage, and even then the shoaling in the whole area right inside the inlet is serpentine and off the hook.

If you want to get a little bit of sailing in one approach is up the Chesapeake and then stop in Cape May and wait for a window to scoot up the Jersey coast to NY, avoiding going in along the way unless you have to. I really hate dealing with most of the inlets along that route, would rather sail right past them if possible.
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Old 28-05-2018, 06:20   #15
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Re: Hampton, VA to NYC

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Another reason why going outside is not necessarily faster, even if you're going 24/7, is that you could spend a few days or more cooling your heels in Hampton waiting for a weather window, whereas you could pretty much take off right away up the Chesapeake and get going. The lower Chesapeake however is not to be taken for granted at "sheltered water" so you still need to mind the forecast.

A word of warning about inlets along the Jersey shore; they can be treacherous when the wind sets up against the tide, with standing waves that can be a real bear to deal with. Do NOT attempt to exit or enter under those conditions.

If you do enter Barnegat Inlet you pretty much have to go straight to the nearest anchorage, and even then the shoaling in the whole area right inside the inlet is serpentine and off the hook.

If you want to get a little bit of sailing in one approach is up the Chesapeake and then stop in Cape May and wait for a window to scoot up the Jersey coast to NY, avoiding going in along the way unless you have to. I really hate dealing with most of the inlets along that route, would rather sail right past them if possible.
I just came back from bringing a boat from the Chesapeake Bay to New York City, and I've made this trip a few times. I have also sailed outside from Hampton Virginia to Cape May. I would absolutely go up the Chesapeake Bay with your new to you boat. A million anchorage's and places to stop along the way and take a break if you need it. There's also many areas that have chandleries close to the anchorage if you need parts.

I would absolutely go through the C&D canal and then down the Delaware River. You will want to get an Eldridge Tide and Pilot book. It is indispensable in timing your exit out the C&D canal and down the Delaware River as well as your entrance into New York Harbor.

If you don't have ais, get yourself familiar with marinetraffic.com. As long as you have cellular service and internet connection, you will be able to see most of the big boats that are coming your way and will be able to hail them, even at night. The boat I was on did not have ais and this is what I used. I communicated with these big vessels all through the nights that we were out. They were very friendly and happy to hear from us. I am also familiar with the night-time light signatures. In fact, this last trip there was a wing in ground vessel that had landed in the Delaware River. I only knew that because I saw its light signatures. When you're sailing up the Chesapeake Bay, there's no reason for you to have to be in any of the shipping channels. For the most part, if you stay out of the shipping channels you won't have freighter contact. There are occasional tugs, though that head out of the shipping lanes.

When you sail down the Delaware River, you can sail outside of the shipping channel all the way down with one exception. That way, there's no conflict between you and the big boats. Again, this was the path that I used.

As someone else's said, for a sailboat, I would consider there are no usable ports on the coast of New Jersey except Atlantic City, and Atlantic Highlands up near Sandy Hook. I have sailed Barnegat Bay for many years. Barnegat Inlet is treacherous and you are most likely to run aground or get stuck. It is certainly not a port you can enter at night. Atlantic City is easily accessible. Once you leave Atlantic City, you're on your own until Sandy Hook.

There's a ton of fishing traffic coming out of the Manasquan inlet at night. Manasquan Inlet is also not something that you should try at night.

During the day you can get within about 1 mile of the Jersey coast. There are a few floating dredge pipes that we saw. At night, I took the boat to the five fathom line or just over three miles out. The reason I did this was that the traffic separation scheme starts about five miles out. So although I can see the big boats off to starboard, there were no real dangers. I would even hail those boats at night to get their course heading from them.

Depending on when you go, the predominant winds will be out of the South Southwest to the south-southeast unless there is a storm coming, in which case the wind will clock around to the west-northwest for a day or two before settling back to the south-southeast.

Getting into New York Harbor was easy. Once you hit the Ambrose Channel, sale outside the channel so you don't tangle with the big boats. There is plenty of water all the way to the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. You need to time your entrance under the Verrazano Bridge with the tide. The current can be up to four knots against you.

Once you get under the Verrazano Bridge, be prepared for absolute culture shock! You go from being the only boat in the coastal Atlantic to being in an area where there are Staten Island Ferry zipping everywhere, Circle Line Ferry zipping everywhere, helicopters overhead, pleasure boats everywhere. You get the idea. There will also be tons of Freighters anchored all over the place. Here again, stay out of the mark Channel as far as the Freighters go and the fairies typically cross the Hudson River almost perpendicular to the river,. You'll get the idea pretty fast. I was frustrated when I entered the Hudson River, but I never felt afraid.

It's a very enjoyable trip. If you're coming up the Chesapeake, plan some time and enjoy some of the stops along the way. Remember, sailing is about the journey, not the destination.

Ben
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