GPS/Satnav usage switches off the brain..

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

From this research I would postulate that those who depend on automated navigation tools will have diminished natural capacity over time compared to those who keep using their right posterior hippocampal by navigating manually.

Surely, that depends on how you use those parts of your brain in total, not just for navigation.

"the hippocampus, a brain region used for memory and navigation, and the prefrontal cortex, a region used for planning and decision-making."

[Pelagic]

Not complaining buzz star just my personal observation that flying is infinitely more technically challenging than sailing, so I don't agree they are a valid comparison
(but ironically to make my point, you have to make comparison)[emoji57]

I did achieve a pilots licence in my 20's but preffered running the slower, less ballistic ships and Superyachts as a career

I have spent a number of hours in the cockpits of commercial and private jets in all conditions, so I understand the basics and appreciate the skill, but i do not compare them to my professional skills and priorities as a sailor which has the main advantage of confirming reality at a slow speed with all your physical senses ....hence my nautical emphasis is on lookout!

I trust this helps to untwist your panties! [emoji111]

[bvimatelot]

Wow - didn't even know I had a Hippo-whatever in my head. However - one thing I will say about electronic navigation is that it does take away a lot of the excitement and anticipation on a sailing voyage. You pretty much always know where you are and when you are going to arrive. It takes the thrill and sense of achievement out of a good landfall after, say, a transatlantic passage. Tony

[Pelagic]

Hi Wotname, great to see you back on CF.

I agree with your analysis and history and I think my post was wrong in that I was specifically thinking of jets @ cruising altitude trans ocean, not worrying about unmarked reefs.

The sophistication of aircraft today with all their automatic safeties and warnings, just astounds me!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by StuM

Surely, that depends on how you use those parts of your brain in total, not just for navigation.

"the hippocampus, a brain region used for memory and navigation, and the prefrontal cortex, a region used for planning and decision-making."

Yes, very true. My initial hypothesis is way too broad.

See … that’s how science works. Dumb guy makes a simplistic hypothesis. Smarter person comes along and refines it.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi Wotname, great to see you back on CF.

I agree with your analysis and history and I think my post was wrong in that I was specifically thinking of jets @ cruising altitude trans ocean, not worrying about unmarked reefs.

The sophistication of aircraft today with all their automatic safeties and warnings, just astounds me!

P, thanks for the (re)welcome

Yep, the pilots aren't really necessary on those airframes except for the perception of safety ; it's the technology that flies 'em. Others might disagree...

Easy to confuse hi tech commercial aviation with the recreational pilot but we don't confuse (as much) the master of VBS (very big ships ) with the recreational boater.

Back to the main thrust of the thread, I'm thinking that the GPS et al doesn't so much switch off the brain, more that it makes us lazy and thus loose situational awareness so that when the proverbial hits the fan, we are too far behind the eight ball to get back on top of the game quickly.

But given all the tech info in previous post regarding the brain functions, I'm probably the one who is behind the eight ball. Certainly my nav equipment is sadly lacking; just a compass, log, GPS giving lat/long and a paper chart with pencil and ruler. Oh and the sounder and radar so perhaps I'll survive another trip down the river .

[JPA Cate]

Sometimes one finds oneself in a place where there is no directional indication, like an unfamiliar shopping mall.

I guess it's the hippocampus that says, "Hey, pay attention, the liquor store's 180 deg turn from here! Come on, now!"

Sense of direction's a funny thing, and I think looking at charts keeps it "fit." It is hard for some people to adjust to a different hemisphere of the earth. The sun clues don't work any more. Over time, the brain accommodates. Somehow. Even switching sides of the roads one drives on, and correctly understanding land charts (maps) for freeway exits. Somehow, we understand, "change, left" "change, right". Amazing, really.

Then, of course, you find the people who don't understand about passing port to port. "But we drive on the left, " they say. Sigh.

Ann

[Kismet36]

I noticed this a long time ago in relation to calculators and basic math. Young people can no longer figure out change unless the register tells them exactly how much to give you back. For fun, if you order something that costs $4.22, hand them a 5, wait until they punch it in and then say, "oh, I have a quarter". It will be a big problem. It looks like the article is making the same point. Think about the fact that hardly anyone learning to drive today has ever looked at a map. I bet my dad thought the same thing when his slide rule became obsolete.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kismet36

I noticed this a long time ago in relation to calculators and basic math. Young people can no longer figure out change unless the register tells them exactly how much to give you back. For fun, if you order something that costs $4.22, hand them a 5, wait until they punch it in and then say, "oh, I have a quarter". It will be a big problem. It looks like the article is making the same point. Think about the fact that hardly anyone learning to drive today has ever looked at a map. I bet my dad thought the same thing when his slide rule became obsolete.

Noticed that back in the 80's when I was a head cocktail barman.. when recruiting for a new barperson a basic verbal test would be something like.. "So.!! all spirits are 75pence and all mixers are 25pence.. beer is £1.10/bottle.. how much is 3 gin and tonics, 1 rum and coke and 2 beers..??"
So many could not do the simple mental math..
This was before the 'do it all for you' tills..

[toddster8]

I occasionally teach a core class for college sophomores in the biomedical field. If I post an exam question that requires math, I always make it very simple. It's not a math class, after all. The solution can usually be found by manipulating tens or twos. However, the vast majority of the class simply leaves these questions blank. One or two will complain that they need a calculator. Those people are now nurses, dentists, optometrists, pharmacists, and a few will have become physicians. These are the people who are calculating your dosage...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatman61

[SIZE="3”]...So many could not do the simple mental math..
This was before the 'do it all for you' tills..[/SIZE]

If we don’t use it, we lose it. This is true of many of our bodies capabilities; from muscles to mental faculties. While the research paper we’re discussing doesn’t go this far in its findings, it does suggest this as a likely outcome. It certainly begs the question that needs to be asked in the next experiment.

[jkindredpdx]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My last land home was a small cabin in a semi-wild area, a little ways out of the city (Thunder Bay). People would often get lost coming to our place. I finally figured out Google Maps had us in the wrong spot.

Luckily the place it sent people to was onto a causeway, and not over some ledge or into the Lake.

Funny Mike.
I have the same case with my cabin on Mt Hood... there's no cell coverage in our valley so people can't call to get directions until they give up and drive back to the nearest town...

[jkindredpdx]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Sometimes one finds oneself in a place where there is no directional indication, like an unfamiliar shopping mall.

I guess it's the hippocampus that says, "Hey, pay attention, the liquor store's 180 deg turn from here! Come on, now!"

Sense of direction's a funny thing, and I think looking at charts keeps it "fit." It is hard for some people to adjust to a different hemisphere of the earth. The sun clues don't work any more. Over time, the brain accommodates. Somehow. Even switching sides of the roads one drives on, and correctly understanding land charts (maps) for freeway exits. Somehow, we understand, "change, left" "change, right". Amazing, really.

Then, of course, you find the people who don't understand about passing port to port. "But we drive on the left, " they say. Sigh.

Ann

Too right Ann,
I'm from Idaho in the US Wild West. After avoiding collisions exiting roundabouts on a fishing trip in Northern England, I eventually became hopelessly lost looking for our night's lodging... whether in Idaho, Maine, New South Wales, Osaka, Netherlands, Italy, Sweden, or Paris I've never had difficulty finding a watering hole... and this time was no different. Within minutes I was happily swapping lies with locals while downing pints. We even overcame the language barrier as I was struggling to communicate with a young Geordie and his friend stepped in to advise... "he's a Yank, you gots ta talk reeeaaal slowww!"

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If we don’t use it, we lose it. This is true of many of our bodies capabilities; from muscles to mental faculties. While the research paper we’re discussing doesn’t go this far in its findings, it does suggest this as a likely outcome. It certainly begs the question that needs to be asked in the next experiment.

Mike I was just wondering if there are any cerebral benefits to using GPS/SAT Nav?
What came to mind is the 'quality of sleep when off watch.

In the 70-80's as the navigator exploring the Atols in Micronesia on a small cruise ship, my head was full of calculations from celestial and DR, constantly updating my ETA's as we wove in and out of the currents and countercurrent.

Never slept very well as those numbers and the details of when I took my Star /Sun sights kept replaying in my head.

It is much the same today when I am researching heavily for a presentation....I just don't sleep well!
But now when making a passage with GPS, I sleep like a log off watch.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Mike I was just wondering if there are any cerebral benefits to using GPS/SAT Nav?
What came to mind is the 'quality of sleep when off watch…. It is much the same today when I am researching heavily for a presentation....I just don't sleep well!
But now when making a passage with GPS, I sleep like a log off watch.

Agreed. There must be significant benefits (cerebral, physical, emotional or even spiritual) to all these technologies. I tend to look at most things like this as the proverbial “double-edged sword.” Each technological development comes with positives and negatives. The constant challenge is to embrace the plus side, while mitigating the down. I have no wisdom on how to do this — just being aware is the first step, I suppose.

Originally Posted by jkindredpdx

Funny Mike.
I have the same case with my cabin on Mt Hood... there's no cell coverage in our valley so people can't call to get directions until they give up and drive back to the nearest town...

Ah the parallels. We learned to warn people that they were going to lose cell coverage as they came out to our place. Our rural friends would never bat an eye, but it was interesting to see our urban friends laugh at first, thinking it was a joke. Then as the reality dawned on them they would either get nervous, bemused, or just plain bewildered. “What do you mean there is no cell coverage?!?”.