Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-05-2018, 13:30   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sozopol
Boat: Riva 48
Posts: 1,386
Re: GPS-Hdg Sensor Shoot-Out

Dockhead, the KVH Autocomp is spec'd to 0.5 deg at up to 30 deg tilt and in all conditions. It is not like a cheap Raymarine fluxgate compass. It does not have a gyro but it is a really good, gimballed fluxgate compass with variable level of damping. Plus, it has autocompensation so you never have to worry about calibration. I am just sharing my experiences.

I understand the fascination with new technology but it is not always better. If you read up on the Coastguard electronics update (during the Furuno decade at least, they have moved on to Raymarine now), they were positively surprised by the accuracy of quality fluxgate compasses and issued a statement somewhere in the mid-2000s that they were good enough to use as the main ship compass (which is what I do as well).

My issue with the GPS compass is that conceptually it is quite difficult to make it work. You have two antennas, they measure their positions, then you average them and get the heading. Great. Now imagine the boat is dynamic, waves, etc. The electronics need to take the 3D orientation and adjust the GPS input for movement in three dimensions. It is a lot of calculations and this is why the dynamic accuracy of these compasses is not so good. If you want stabilized output, you have to average over a longer period of time. It is just a difficult way to calculate heading and it requires quality accelerometers (expensive) and proprietary algorithms. Hence the prices we see. I would rather use the Earth's magnetic field (which is not easy to jam on my boat. Plus, my boat is mostly nmea 0183.

I have tested against the best in class H2183 and the KVH works better for me. The specs confirm it. I can see why vendors have moved to solid state autopilot compasses (easy calibration, less sensitive to magnetic fields, cheap and good enough for autopilots). Has the Coasguard switched though?

One day I will get a real gyro or an INS on the boat and settle this debate .
Pizzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2018, 15:02   #17
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,873
Re: GPS-Hdg Sensor Shoot-Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
. . . My issue with the GPS compass is that conceptually it is quite difficult to make it work. You have two antennas, they measure their positions, then you average them and get the heading. Great. Now imagine the boat is dynamic, waves, etc. The electronics need to take the 3D orientation and adjust the GPS input for movement in three dimensions. It is a lot of calculations and this is why the dynamic accuracy of these compasses is not so good. If you want stabilized output, you have to average over a longer period of time. It is just a difficult way to calculate heading and it requires quality accelerometers (expensive) and proprietary algorithms. . . .
Well, except that this is not at all how satellite compasses work at all. It has nothing to do with comparing positions, and they have far better dynamic performance than fluxgate compasses. You are right that greater distance between the antennas of a satellite compass increases the accuracy, but heading is calculated by a satellite compass not from the difference in positions, but from the PHASE DATA from the satellites. The wavelength of GPS signals is a few centimeters, so it is possible to measure exquisite differences in RELATIVE position to the satellites by PHASE, without knowing the ABSOLUTE position within even orders of magnitude of the same accuracy. That's the whole trick.

Satellite compasses do not require accelerometers at all for their primary processes. Their dynamic performance is almost exactly the same as their static performance, unlike the case with fluxgate compasses. They have accelerometers only for the sake of doing dead reckoning in case the signal is briefly blocked by a bridge or cliff or something.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gps


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NMEA Sentence HDG Andreas29 OpenCPN 4 15-11-2017 12:50
Cruising Electronics Shoot-out FightinGravity Marine Electronics 10 19-10-2015 14:46
Custom NMEA Sentences-convert HDG in HDM Madden OpenCPN 3 25-05-2015 20:21
No HDG Data Display In OpenCPN xiurong OpenCPN 19 15-01-2014 05:46
Would you shoot ... Gisle Health, Safety & Related Gear 36 11-11-2006 07:34

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.