? from a newb, Coastal cruising...

[krisb007]

So pretty new here and learning a lot. I am working on my 5 year plan, and once my youngest is out adulting I will be jumping in head first and doing the whole liveaboard thing and spend about 5 years cruising the PNW and the inside passage until I am hopefully ready to make that big left turn South. In the mean time as with a lot of people who are a few years out I am trying to absorb as much as possible by reading everything and learning from all you fine experienced folks. Learning is easy to do on this site because so many of you agree on so many things it is easy to get pointed in the same direction.... Just being funny. But really it is very interesting the wide range of answers you get here because it makes you think from so many different perspectives, but I digress...

My question is this, I like so many in my position, am constantly looking at boats for sale even though I know I will not be purchasing one for a few years. I think it is just part of the dream and a great motivational tool to ones self. As I learn more about what I want to do with my future dream boat I am narrowing the field so to speak. But one thing I am not clear on is the definition of a coastal cruiser vs a blue water boat. I mean yes I know a blue water boat is considered a stout boat that can cross oceans successfully and there are a wide variety that can do this. But when you speak of a "good coastal cruiser but not considered a blue water boat" things get a little muddy.

For example if one had plans (like myself) to one day sail from Seattle to Meixico I would most likely cruise off the coast about 100 miles out or so as I have read the sailing is better and the traffic is less. Would that still be considered coastal cruising or blue water cruising? Yes I know I am being simplistic about this scenario but its the best example that comes to mind. Is within CG rescue distance considered coastal cruising or is there some other more accepted distance like within eyesight of land?

And yes I have tried to find my answers via the in site search and a modified google search, but I didn't seam to find what I was looking for. Feel free to send me a link if you know where some are.

Thanks in advance for any clarity you can give me on this.

[belizesailor]

You wont find a clear and widely accepted definition of the two, but you will get plenty of opinions here!

Each term also means slightly different things to different people.

IMHO the term "blue water" also gets way over used. Lots of folks out there looking for "blue water" boats who only plan to do the standard Eastern Carib island hop.

[StuM]

FWIW:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...you-29985.html

[Kenomac]

You won't need to cruise 100 miles off the shore on your way down the west coast. Where did you get that idea? A few miles is fine, five is plenty and ten is way more than enough.

Just keep a good lookout like you're supposed to do, and you'll be fine. Cruising is all about visiting places and meeting people, what are you going to see and who will you meet 100 miles away from the coast?

[Hudson Force]

Like many, I don't see a clear operational definition for "Blue Water" or "Coastal Cruiser", but my thoughts identify a Coastal Cruiser a a boat operated within the forecast weather window of 3 to 5 days that allows avoidance of heavy weather. In contrast, a Blue Water vessel would be designed and prepared to encounter longer passages that would be subject to major storms.

[boatman61]

I'm in HF's corner.. kinda..
For me the Med is coastal sailing.. nowhere are you more than 72hrs from land at the most.. more often much less than that extreme..
However these should also be capable of so called Blue Water.. the sea's are much easier to ride in the Atlantic than the Med's short and sharp..
Some folks think a Macgregor's a coastal boat.. to me it belong in Lakes and Estuaries.. places like Pamlico Sound.. along with a few other models.
To my way of thinking Blue Water and Coastal is not in the boat.. its in the mind of the sailor.
I know folks who love to cruise N France.. its a rocky coastline with strong tides.. reefs and 70% of the time a lee shore.. ships graveyards all around.
They love nothing more than beating from one port to the next on the tide gates.. everything's timed to a 'T'..
Bugga Dat..!!
Set auto pilot.. make coffee, grab book n get settled in.. 'BlueWater'

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I'm in HF's corner.. kinda..
For me the Med is coastal sailing.. nowhere are you more than 72hrs from land at the most.. more often much less than that extreme..
However these should also be capable of so called Blue Water.. the sea's are much easier to ride in the Atlantic than the Med's short and sharp..
Some folks think a Macgregor's a coastal boat.. to me it belong in Lakes and Estuaries.. places like Pamlico Sound.. along with a few other models.
To my way of thinking Blue Water and Coastal is not in the boat.. its in the mind of the sailor.
I know folks who love to cruise N France.. its a rocky coastline with strong tides.. reefs and 70% of the time a lee shore.. ships graveyards all around.
They love nothing more than beating from one port to the next on the tide gates.. everything's timed to a 'T'..
Bugga Dat..!!
Set auto pilot.. make coffee, grab book n get settled in.. 'BlueWater'

I think this video demonstrates the point boatman is making. Here we are coastal cruising along Corsica on our Oyster heading into 35 knots, notice at 1:20 to see the comfort level we're experiencing in these conditions. Sure other boats can do the same, but it just depends on the comfort level you expect and the confidence you wish to have. Some might even choose to stay in the marina on a day like that, others might not be able to make headway.

It's all just personal choice, just don't buy a boat that bends and creaks like a plastic coke bottle.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_f4Wf0qDdbs

[mdbrown]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Some folks think a Macgregor's a coastal boat.. to me it belong in Lakes and Estuaries.. places like Pamlico Sound.. along with a few other models. To my way of thinking Blue Water and Coastal is not in the boat.. its in the mind of the sailor.

Two really good points right there!

As a MacGregor 26S owner I wouldn't want to take it out in open water beyond a bay or within some protected waters along the coast. It's a great lake boat and fun for learning. But out on the ocean? I don't think so. Heck, I'd even be pretty cautious about taking it across the Great Lakes unless the weather is just right. When you can reach your hand over the stern and touch the water, I'd say it isn't suited for open water. Well that and the little 8hp outboard. But I am still young and dumb...

And then to it being the sailor and not the boat...very true. To me, coastal is jumping in and out of anchorages or marinas, never having to spend a night on watch. Not that you won't stay out, but that you don't *have* to stay out. When you start making runs where you are out of sight of land - now you're in blue water territory.

Like the OP, I'm enjoying learning from the adventures and misfortunes of others through the forum. Fun times ahead....

[Capt_Flrp]

Wow. I was in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club (US Navy) in a destroyer tender crossing the Sea of Japan. I had to wrap an arm around the bunk chain to keep from sliding off the bunk. I once was caught on Lake Michigan in a sudden storm where the windless day with flat "oily" seas and 90+ F. temperature dropped into the lower 50s and the seas became 20+. Our spreaders got washed twice and nearly a third time. I keep being reminded that the number 1 rule about sailing is to "stay away from the hard stuff". In both of the mentioned situations, I was very thankful for a vessel capable of handling the beating. I also remember the many vessels still floating after a terrible storm where crew "had to be rescued". Coastal cruising can be more likely to become a lee shore etc. and more dangerous than "blue water". IMHO, a sound vessel and a cautious captain would be the important parts of blue water sailing.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by krisb007

But one thing I am not clear on is the definition of a coastal cruiser vs a blue water boat. I mean yes I know a blue water boat is considered a stout boat that can cross oceans successfully and there are a wide variety that can do this. But when you speak of a "good coastal cruiser but not considered a blue water boat" things get a little muddy.

Please note that I have not sailed on the W coast of N. America and therefore there's an element of "general knowledge" in my reply.

"Coastal" is an elastic concept. I've heard coastal described as a) within sight of land; b) within one day of land AND "sight of land"; c) "off soundings" or the point where the continential plate of wherever coast you are near drops off into the ocean's abyssal plain; d) "daysailing".

Context is therefore everything. I see four different types of sailing there.

In your case, that 100 NM offshore, but (generally) paralleling the coast, is coastal in the sense that you have the boat approximately 24 hours of sailing from the shore, but that 24 hours is broadly prudent offing, given the lack of safe landfalls and that the west coast is almost always a lee coast. The land hurts boats more than the sea does.

That said, 100 NM off will affect most small yachts (50 feet and under) as if you were in the middle of the ocean. So you have to consider that in terms of boat selection. I would pick a boat for strength and ease of single-handed operation and I would also pick a boat that could heave to effectively. Your answer suggests solo sailing: the most important part of that is getting enough sleep on passage, so while there are fast boats that heave to and can be single-handed, they are generally out of the modest price bracket nearly every other used boat currently commands.

I would suggest you've got the right approach: you are working from your known cruising route backwards to the boat selection, rather than falling in love with a model that may not be the best choice and trying to make it work for the passage. Good luck.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I think this video demonstrates the point boatman is making. Here we are coastal cruising along Corsica on our Oyster heading into 35 knots, notice at 1:20 to see the comfort level we're experiencing in these conditions. Sure other boats can do the same, but it just depends on the comfort level you expect and the confidence you wish to have. Some might even choose to stay in the marina on a day like that, others might not be able to make headway.

It's all just personal choice, just don't buy a boat that bends and creaks like a plastic coke bottle.

That Oyster 53 is an example of "fast, seaworthy and able to heave to" I was indicating. They are not generally discounted in the used market!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by krisb007

So pretty new here and learning a lot. I am working on my 5 year plan, and once my youngest is out adulting I will be jumping in head first and doing the whole liveaboard thing and spend about 5 years cruising the PNW and the inside passage until I am hopefully ready to make that big left turn South. In the mean time as with a lot of people who are a few years out I am trying to absorb as much as possible by reading everything and learning from all you fine experienced folks. Learning is easy to do on this site because so many of you agree on so many things it is easy to get pointed in the same direction.... Just being funny. But really it is very interesting the wide range of answers you get here because it makes you think from so many different perspectives, but I digress...

My question is this, I like so many in my position, am constantly looking at boats for sale even though I know I will not be purchasing one for a few years. I think it is just part of the dream and a great motivational tool to ones self. As I learn more about what I want to do with my future dream boat I am narrowing the field so to speak. But one thing I am not clear on is the definition of a coastal cruiser vs a blue water boat. I mean yes I know a blue water boat is considered a stout boat that can cross oceans successfully and there are a wide variety that can do this. But when you speak of a "good coastal cruiser but not considered a blue water boat" things get a little muddy.

For example if one had plans (like myself) to one day sail from Seattle to Meixico I would most likely cruise off the coast about 100 miles out or so as I have read the sailing is better and the traffic is less. Would that still be considered coastal cruising or blue water cruising? Yes I know I am being simplistic about this scenario but its the best example that comes to mind. Is within CG rescue distance considered coastal cruising or is there some other more accepted distance like within eyesight of land?

And yes I have tried to find my answers via the in site search and a modified google search, but I didn't seam to find what I was looking for. Feel free to send me a link if you know where some are.

Thanks in advance for any clarity you can give me on this.

A well put post but I am afraid an unanswerable question since it is subjective, blue or coastal. And your kids never become adults in your mind.
Best of luck with your quest.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by mdbrown

Two really good points right there!

As a MacGregor 26S owner I wouldn't want to take it out in open water beyond a bay or within some protected waters along the coast. It's a great lake boat and fun for learning. But out on the ocean? I don't think so. Heck, I'd even be pretty cautious about taking it across the Great Lakes unless the weather is just right. When you can reach your hand over the stern and touch the water, I'd say it isn't suited for open water. Well that and the little 8hp outboard. But I am still young and dumb...

And then to it being the sailor and not the boat...very true. To me, coastal is jumping in and out of anchorages or marinas, never having to spend a night on watch. Not that you won't stay out, but that you don't *have* to stay out. When you start making runs where you are out of sight of land - now you're in blue water territory.

Like the OP, I'm enjoying learning from the adventures and misfortunes of others through the forum. Fun times ahead....

A lot of BS is mentioned in relation to the Macgregor 26 models, and I've never understood why. If you accept your very sensible definition of "great lake boat and fun for learning", you can enjoy the vessel for that set of attributes and not pretend otherwise. You are even correct (in my view as a Great Lakes sailor currently) that it's not going to be fun or perhaps safe in a typical summer squall line here. But as a daysailer and learning platform that is also for recreational use, it has some unique attributes.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You won't need to cruise 100 miles off the shore on your way down the west coast. Where did you get that idea? A few miles is fine, five is plenty and ten is way more than enough.

Just keep a good lookout like you're supposed to do, and you'll be fine. Cruising is all about visiting places and meeting people, what are you going to see and who will you meet 100 miles away from the coast?

There are not many decent/safe anchorages down the west coast of WA/OR - and most of them are behind bars that are closed in heavy weather.

Going 100 miles off shore is not a bad way to do that route, especially if you are single-handing.

[nortonscove]

All in the sailor. I've had people tell me that my Beneteau doesn't belong in Newfoundland where I live and sail. Yet I've never felt in danger while aboard. In 4 years of ownership we've seen up to 47 knots over the deck and the boat remains perfect for us. But I've been on boats my whole life and can say with confidence that near shore sailing is vastly more challenging due to the hard stuff as well as the effect of shoals and bottleneck of the sea's.

We experience this 5 minutes from our mooring pretty much 50% of the time when sailing. And while we'd all like to a million dollars boat mine cost a tenth of that for pretty much the same experience.

The real question is believe is are you a sailor or best offer with an rv.