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Old 05-02-2014, 11:20   #1
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Electronic Admiralty Charts

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this one BUT

is there any archive of scanned admiralty or other older survey charts that you can add to open CPN or other electronic nav systems? For my continual hunt for Atlantic Canada charts, I'd like to have older charts available to supplement my other sources if they were around. I'm assuming they are out of copyright by now?

That would mean someone would have had to scan them, so I'm guessing no.

Thanks
Paul
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:33   #2
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

Quote:
I'm assuming they are out of copyright by now?
Depends on when the chart was first published. You might want to review:

Introduction to Copyright Licensing
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Old 27-02-2014, 07:01   #3
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

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Originally Posted by sully75 View Post
is there any archive of scanned admiralty or other older survey charts that you can add to open CPN or other electronic nav systems? For my continual hunt for Atlantic Canada charts, I'd like to have older charts available to supplement my other sources if they were around. I'm assuming they are out of copyright by now?
CM93 vector charts are sourced by UKHO (the same organisation who publish Admiralty series). Raster DIY copy normally inferior to any other source. Even smartphone app chat would be more accurate.
Pilot books by UKHO I have seen huge collection on one of torrents site(widely known Swedish site ). But those for commercial shipping not much use for small craft but could be interesting just to read for fun.
Copyrights is interesting aspect. You can lend the paper chart to anyone but not the electronic version of it. Lobbyists group can influence our crystal honest politicians to get the laws they benefit most.
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Old 27-02-2014, 07:13   #4
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

I had the vague impression that all the UK "Admiralty" charts were Crown Copyright, i.e. the rights belonged to the monarchy and did not expire the way they did for conventional mortals. But then again...I don't understand how aliens and non-citizens can copy US charts either, since the copyrights to government works in the US belong "to the people" and that usually means the citizenry only.
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Old 27-02-2014, 07:16   #5
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

The only rastar admiralty (UKHO) charts that I know which are available for Open CPN are those from
2014 ChartStick- for OpenCPN and PolarNavy (inc. International Areas) : by VisitMyHarbour [Charts for OpenCPN and Polar Navy] - VisitMyHarbour articles


But these only cover the UK and bits of Europe, and are current UKHO charts.
There is a subscription charge, but considering the coverage, its good value.
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Old 27-02-2014, 07:54   #6
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I had the vague impression that all the UK "Admiralty" charts were Crown Copyright, i.e. the rights belonged to the monarchy and did not expire the way they did for conventional mortals. But then again...I don't understand how aliens and non-citizens can copy US charts either, since the copyrights to government works in the US belong "to the people" and that usually means the citizenry only.
Yes it crown copyright in most Commonwealth countries would be 50 years since creation. Even old charts would have some corrections. That is more stricter then US gov copyright.
But rule of thumb with copyright any unauthorised use of copyright materials in commercial activities is wrong and may get you into trouble. The personal non commercial use should be all right even it is not legal.
Not many pleasure boats going to buy Admiralty vector charts for 10,000USD you can download CM93 for free with the same coverage. No damage to UKHO because zero sales in this segment anyway. The shipping companies going buy one official for regulation purposes but not small yachts. This why the version for small boats as Visit My Harbour exists. It is good value for money and Crown get some money from this segment of the market. The point is if you need the reference or back up system not many in yachties can afford to buy the expensive staff. However it like smart phone apps chart. Navionics cheap but does not last to long (will work for year or two then would stop working and you will have to buy a new one again) . For 20 it is good deal for 200 would make think twice.
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Old 27-02-2014, 08:59   #7
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

CM93 download sites are usually infested with malware, from what I've seen of them.
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Old 27-02-2014, 09:49   #8
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

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CM93 download sites are usually infested with malware, from what I've seen of them.
Avoid the dodgy sites all together for any download (basically all non manufacturing sites).
Use torrent trackers instead. If you live in one of police run state where the providers blocking the web sites access and prosecute punters like North Korea, Iran, US or UK) then use Tor (they got stand alone contained browser and client so no installation required) to access torrent trackers and downloads. Tor will bypass the restriction, masking your IP and safe to use (if you suspect infection delete whole Tor directory and reload again on Linux it safe like Fort Knox ).
The Swedish site is most popular one. If you need more just google the list of banned torrent sites. If you using Chrome as browser you can try the Russian or Chinese sites (chrome will translate on the fly). Russian search engine is Yandex and chinese is Baidu would be less restricted then Google.


Just remember torrents are for testing products only if you like and want to use it commercially buy it. Then you get support and warranty.
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Old 27-02-2014, 10:19   #9
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

> it like smart phone apps chart. Navionics cheap but does not last to long (will work for year or two then would stop working and you will have to buy a new one again)

Do you have any evidence to back that up? Nothing in my two Android Navionics apps says anything about expiring.

And yes, I have clicked on the link when you open the app and read the EULA on their website,
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Old 27-02-2014, 10:37   #10
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

Let me rephrase it, Alexey. From what I found of CM93 links, including the sources you don't quite name, ALL OF THEM were either malware or dead links. ALL OF THEM.

I wouldn't want to trust navigation and safety to any of the clowns behind that, because the same folks who load CM93 products with malware, could just as easily remove a few rocks from a chart.
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Old 27-02-2014, 12:04   #11
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I wouldn't want to trust navigation and safety to any of the clowns behind that, because the same folks who load CM93 products with malware,.......
That sounds a bit worrying, is it possible? How does malware code or scripts get from a downloaded chart into the operating system of your machine? Any examples or links?


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Old 27-02-2014, 15:21   #12
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

cona-
I'm not talking about putting malware into your computer "from" a chart, but about sabotaging the charts themselves.

I haven't seen an instance of charts being tampered with, but it would be dog simple. There is readily available software to edit and resave all kinds of digital files, raster or vector, and all you would have to do is open the chart file, delete a reef, or move it over 1/4 mile, and resave the file. No one would ever know.
This would be "fun" for the kind of person who is already distributing malware, and there's plenty of them.
This would also be profitable for the kind of folks who were wreckers, literally lighting false lights in order to strand and shipwreck ships for hundreds of years. A historically profitable local business in many places, including old time Key West apparently.

As to malware in the computer? Many of the bootleg software sites either carry code in the web page itself, which can infect your computer, or carry malware in the files that you download and execute in order to get the bootleg files. I've seen malware attached to, and coming from, all kinds of sites. Barbie dolls, air conditioning, it really doesn't matter how trivial and innocent the web site is, there are folks who will be trying to load malware into it. And since so many web sites "require" you to load the Flash Player, Java, JavaScript, or ActiveX in order to simply view the web page? They also require you to make your computer vulnerable to more malware.

So, two very different kinds of dangers. And these days the malware can require you to literally wipe everything off the computer to get rid of it. The bad guys have been winning.
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Old 27-02-2014, 17:59   #13
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

Poi , crown copy right is actually 50 years from date of last updated publication , not creation

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Old 27-02-2014, 20:53   #14
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

Thanks for clarifying that, Dave. IOW, if the Crown doesn't "abandon" the copyright, it can be extended forever by making a trivial change and republishing the work in the 50th year.
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Old 27-02-2014, 21:13   #15
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Re: Electronic Admiralty Charts

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Originally Posted by sully75 View Post
is there any archive of scanned admiralty or other older survey charts that you can add to open CPN or other electronic nav systems? For my continual hunt for Atlantic Canada charts, I'd like to have older charts available to supplement my other sources if they were around.
Why would you want Admiralty charts of Atlantic Canada? We have our own hydrographic service: Canadian Hydrographic Service
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