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Old 27-04-2017, 18:24   #31
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
What's not to like about an ipad?
On a delivery last summer, I suggested the owner install navionics on his ipad and use that for primary navigation. Just in case, I brought my faithful garmin etrex and some very old paper charts.

Navionics on the ipad was working great, very impressive, what could go wrong? An hour after leaving the dock the ipad battery is getting low, so we plug it in. Not charging. We check everything. Long story short, good thing I brought the garmin and paper charts.
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Old 27-04-2017, 19:19   #32
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

Great video Kenomac!
I did notice that your wife was keeping a good 2 hand hold on her tablet, not to mention that not all of us are blessed with such a well fitting dodger.
I would also be thinking about putting those nice bikes in a ziplock.
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Old 27-04-2017, 19:33   #33
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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Originally Posted by JohnEasley View Post
Not too long ago, I saw a story about a guy who crossed the Pacific ocean in a sailboat and his only navigation device was an iPad..
.
People have crosed oceans in not much more than a bathtub.
Doesn't make it a sensible thing to do


Quote:
if you decide to go that route, you will need an iPad that has the cellular circuitry, not just the wifi-only model. You don't have to have the cellular part turned on but it is needed for the GPS functionality for the chart plotting
Tell me how those cell towers work in the middle of the ocean.

Better getting a tablet that has no cell requirement to work.
Plenty of android tablets for under $200 have GPS and if you root them, you get the glonass satellites as well.
Phones and tablet on our boat regularly have 2 or more x sattalites working and visible than the standalone plotter.
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Old 27-04-2017, 19:41   #34
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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Tell me how those cell towers work in the middle of the ocean.
It's not that you need cell service for the GPS to work on an iPad, just that the network-ready iPads happen to be the only ones with a built-in GPS antenna. If you want to use a wifi-only iPad you need an external GPS like this Garmin GLO.
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Old 27-04-2017, 19:44   #35
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

I've had raymarine chartplotters, tablets, phones and Pc's. The score so far is, one raymarine C70 failure and one Mac with open cpn failure. All tablets and phones with navionics have worked faithfully for at 3 years at which time I look to replace them.
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Old 27-04-2017, 19:51   #36
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
On a delivery last summer, I suggested the owner install navionics on his ipad and use that for primary navigation. Just in case, I brought my faithful garmin etrex and some very old paper charts.

Navionics on the ipad was working great, very impressive, what could go wrong? An hour after leaving the dock the ipad battery is getting low, so we plug it in. Not charging. We check everything. Long story short, good thing I brought the garmin and paper charts.
Most likely, it was the iPad charger cord or cube to blame, which is why we have six extra cords, total cost $20 on ebay for six OEM Apple cords.

We carry four of these batterybanks which will charge an iPad twice or an iPhone four times, we also have three ipads and two iPhones onboard.

The backup battery costs just $18.28 on ebay. Very handy, can even leave the powerbank plugged in while the iPad is in the cockpit.
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Old 27-04-2017, 19:54   #37
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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Great video Kenomac!
I did notice that your wife was keeping a good 2 hand hold on her tablet, not to mention that not all of us are blessed with such a well fitting dodger.
I would also be thinking about putting those nice bikes in a ziplock.
Thanks,

The bikes died the next day when they completely seized up with rust, now we have Bromptons which are stored below in soft cases.
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Old 27-04-2017, 20:03   #38
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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It's not that you need cell service for the GPS to work on an iPad, just that the network-ready iPads happen to be the only ones with a built-in GPS antenna. .
Good enough reason not to have one.
GPS is pretty much standard on other devices, even my $60 ZTE mobile with 5 inch screen has GPS.
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Old 27-04-2017, 20:08   #39
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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Good enough reason not to have one.
GPS is pretty much standard on other devices, even my $60 ZTE mobile with 5 inch screen has GPS.
I think you may have misunderstood. Only the cheapest ipads are internet/wifi only and don't have an internal gps. It's not much extra for the cellular models which have a GPS antenna. It's just something to be aware of when purchasing an ipad.

The cellular ipad doesn't require the cell towers to use gps, the internal gps antenna will work without the towers out in the middle of the ocean.
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Old 27-04-2017, 20:19   #40
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

I think it's also worth pointing out that we're talking about a delivery 5 days from now and not necessarily the long term solution. I would venture a guess that there may be better things to spend time on right now than installing a permanent MFD at the helm. I would make sure you have a good amount of redundancy but otherwise you will be fine with what you have.

The weather looks great from here, should be a blast!
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Old 28-04-2017, 03:45   #41
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
On a delivery last summer, I suggested the owner install navionics on his ipad and use that for primary navigation. Just in case, I brought my faithful garmin etrex and some very old paper charts.

Navionics on the ipad was working great, very impressive, what could go wrong? An hour after leaving the dock the ipad battery is getting low, so we plug it in. Not charging. We check everything. Long story short, good thing I brought the garmin and paper charts.
My company has 12,000 pilots relying on iPads with several different programs, to replace and greatly improve on the old cases of paper charts. We all charge enroute. When they get old they stop taking charge, but even then they continue to operate when plugged in. That is fairly unusual. We are required to start every sequence with our iPads fully charged and updated.
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Old 28-04-2017, 04:34   #42
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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My company has 12,000 pilots relying on iPads with several different programs, to replace and greatly improve on the old cases of paper charts. We all charge enroute. When they get old they stop taking charge, but even then they continue to operate when plugged in. That is fairly unusual. We are required to start every sequence with our iPads fully charged and updated.
Are these marine pilots, airline pilots, what?

The environment on a small sailboat is very different than on a big ship or airplane. Its hard to imagine, but think of being inside a washing machine, on a roller coaster. Sometimes just pressing a touchpad is a big deal. This is when a dedicated marine device is far superior to a general purpose device. And its usually in the worst conditions that you need the nav info the most. And at those times there is no opportunity to fiddle with charge cables, waterproof cases, or any other distraction other than steering and sailing the boat.
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Old 28-04-2017, 08:32   #43
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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Are these marine pilots, airline pilots, what?

The environment on a small sailboat is very different than on a big ship or airplane. Its hard to imagine, but think of being inside a washing machine, on a roller coaster. Sometimes just pressing a touchpad is a big deal. This is when a dedicated marine device is far superior to a general purpose device. And its usually in the worst conditions that you need the nav info the most. And at those times there is no opportunity to fiddle with charge cables, waterproof cases, or any other distraction other than steering and sailing the boat.
Airline pilots. No, not the same environment, I was only addressing the charging issue. Your argument for a dedicated and mounted marine nav instrument is similar to the argument for getting a bigger boat. Is the iPad adequate, is what I interpret the question as, and there is no blanket answer for all needs and conditions. I'm throwing out some observations regarding reliability and adequacy for navigating.

On my enclosed bridge, the iPad is more than adequate for leisure boating. If you put the iPad in a waterproof holder and mount it, with charge cord connected, it is very robust and reliable in more challenging environments.
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Old 28-04-2017, 08:55   #44
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

Tablets/phones are great to use as navigational tools for the following reasons: much faster processor and graphics, cheap to acquire (you can get subsidized prepaid phones with large screens for next to nothing) and purchase charts for, easy to integrate with online weather or Inreach for offshore). Typical issues are difficult to read in sunlight (not so important as in good sunlight the conditions are usually benign), nearly impossible to use with older radar and waterproofing. For waterproofing, I buy a cheap Windows tablet (I need Windows to display Raymarine radar via Raytech, others should get Android) then stuff all port openings with small pieces of butyl tape or silicone. It will not make it waterproof but splash resistant.
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Old 28-04-2017, 09:54   #45
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Re: Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

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Your argument for a dedicated and mounted marine nav instrument is similar to the argument for getting a bigger boat.
Actually, its quite the opposite. The larger the boat, the more suitable it is for an ipad. But most sailboats referenced in this forum do not have an "enclosed bridge". That is the question posed by the OP. Thats why the ipad seems fine on a sailboat, until it isn't. And if your experience is based on 12,000 airline pilots and enclosed bridges, then you may want to think twice before making a recommendation to someone who might be taking a small, rather open sailboat onto a rather large ocean.
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