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Old 27-12-2012, 15:19   #106
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I'm lost here!

Can someone tell us where we are in this discussion?
Not really sure but looks like someone is trying to push over into a multihull (the cabin cruisers with stick type) vs monohull thread.
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Old 27-12-2012, 16:10   #107
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
It's commonly assumed for some reason that prior to GPS navigational mistakes were rare. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Indeed. See for example:

Honda Point Disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.museum.guernsey.net/downl...e%20Stella.pdf

Just to name two out of millions. Seafaring has become vastly safer as a result of electronic navigation -- this is a fact.
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Old 27-12-2012, 16:46   #108
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

Yes, I note the Honda Point disaster was caused by old fashioned people not using new technology

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At that time radio navigation aids were new and not completely trusted. The USS Delphy was equipped with a radio navigation receiver, but her navigator and captain ignored its indicated bearings, believing them to be erroneous.
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Old 27-12-2012, 16:54   #109
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

"Honda Point Disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

Wow, I grew up near this and didn't know about it.
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Old 27-12-2012, 17:12   #110
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
..............
There will always be idiots and the incompetent, but sailors are much safer with GPS.
While very true I feel it can be countered with with the notion that "easy" navigational methods (GPS etc) have allowed more idiots and incompetents to feel secure enough to head out to sea whereas prior to GPS, their fear of being lost in unknown held them back. Purely spectulative notion of course

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ROFL.... this thread reminds me of my Cherubini Hunter trans-atlantic... everyone in Oriental seemed overly concerned I only had one spare set of batteries for my h/h GPS...
'What if it runs down before you get across..' they asked...
'Well I wait till 1745 each evening once past 40W then correct my course accordingly..' I replied.
'Why 1745...????'
'Thats when the Air France SMX to Paris goes over...' I said...
and they believed me....
Ahh... option B turned option A by stealth.


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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Yes, I note the Honda Point disaster was caused by old fashioned people not using new technology
Interesting take. Don't be confused that all new(ish) technology is (or was) accurate. While I don't have all the details of that incident (who does), I do know that early Radio Direction Finding was very inaccurate at times. In its early days, there was much that was unknown about radio propagation especially in regard to the bending of the wave path and again especially at the frequencies used. Much was discovered by trial and error and forms the basis of what we now know.

Even today naviagation by RDF (& ADF) is not an exact art and subject to large intermittent errors due to shore lines, temperature inversions, time of day, atmospheric disturbances and so on. While better than nothing, they were not great and could be best described as aid to navigation.

Disclaimer - I still install radio beacons and their associated receiving equipment.
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Old 27-12-2012, 17:17   #111
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

Yep, RDF was helpful, but not deadly accurate. There were all sorts of tables you could use to correct the readings depending on how far from the transmitter you were. Still, I have used an RDF to cross with a sun line to get a "fix," and have used RDF quite a few times to get a line of position. Charts used to be much better about locating each radio transmitting tower, even commercial ones, and these were often useful as they had much more power and range, though you had to keep in mind the inaccuracy at larger distances. When I first went to the Bahamas, back in the '80s, RDF was still used quite a bit, even though we had LORAN. The LORAN lines didn't have good crossing angles way out in the Bahamas, so you needed something else and it was often RDF and/or sextant.
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Old 27-12-2012, 22:32   #112
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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(MarkJ forgets that when the Iphone comes unstapled, in 2050, there will be those that have an old Garmin that can still receive a shaky old constellation of 1990's satellites! )
Excuse my ignorance, but this is the first I've heard of this. How will the iPhone come "unstapled" in 2050?
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Old 27-12-2012, 22:59   #113
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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Excuse my ignorance, but this is the first I've heard of this. How will the iPhone come "unstapled" in 2050?
sorry, I was referring back to my own post#57
Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

"....Boatman gave the report. The lights are going out. We will have iphones stapled to the backs of our heads..."

...not the best sci-fimovie you'll ever hope to see, I agree.

a point being made that as a consequence of Skynet , Buoys and Lights will no longer be funded....
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Old 28-12-2012, 09:01   #114
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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They don't get away with it. It catches up with them eventually.
I think I can hear of very few navigation related blunders today. It seems most of us press the button on the AP and we do get to the other side at least as often as the rarefied navigator breed does.

When I hear of things happen, it seems most often accidents come due to lack of sailing skills / experience / boat handling skills / IMAGINATION. Things much more difficult to substitute with the prosthesis of modern technology.

Sure thing, lack of navigation skills and lack of imagination may actually coincide pretty much.

b.
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Old 28-12-2012, 09:36   #115
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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prosthesis of modern technology.
That prosthesis has been fitted to society since the industrial revolution.its arguably part of your body by now.
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Old 28-12-2012, 16:56   #116
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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That prosthesis has been fitted to society since the industrial revolution.its arguably part of your body by now.
No. Not mine. I can cross an ocean (preferably, not the Pacific one though ;-)) by the star.

No crime to use tools. Just look at the difference a plane is held by a shipwright and by an ignorant. Then look at the results of their work.

A tool is a tool and how we use one is an entirely separate issue.

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Old 28-12-2012, 17:03   #117
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No. Not mine. I can cross an ocean (preferably, not the Pacific one though ;-)) by the star.

No crime to use tools. Just look at the difference a plane is held by a shipwright and by an ignorant. Then look at the results of their work.

A tool is a tool and how we use one is an entirely separate issue.

b.
I agree GPS is a tool as is a chronometer or a sextant. No difference at all really.

Dave
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Old 28-12-2012, 17:12   #118
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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I agree GPS is a tool as is a chronometer or a sextant. No difference at all really.

Dave
Yep.

And navigating is done by the person who uses the tool, not by the tool!

b.
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Old 28-12-2012, 17:18   #119
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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I think I can hear of very few navigation related blunders today. It seems most of us press the button on the AP and we do get to the other side at least as often as the rarefied navigator breed does.
aegean final update....
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Old 28-12-2012, 17:19   #120
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pirate Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I agree GPS is a tool as is a chronometer or a sextant. No difference at all really.

Dave
Dunno about that... rough sea... GPS reading in a jiffy...
Sextant....
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