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Old 27-12-2012, 06:01   #91
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

Modern paper or traditional navigational charts Marshall Islands stick chart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Try this if you think paper charts are the "traditional" way to Navigate.
Natural Navigation Book – The Natural Navigator

There was thread on here a while back about someone who did some long voyages without charts gps or any "modern" equipment, Used his knowledge of the stars, tides and winds etc.

Unfortunately this takes a lot of time and knowledge, which is beyond most of us.
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Old 27-12-2012, 06:12   #92
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Talking of Captain Cook and the first use of the Chronometer, the Astronomer Royal was dead set against the new fangled technology and used all his power to disallow its use for thrity years.
Think of all the men that died at sea during those thirty years.
Sir Isaac Newton also stood firmly in the way of a chronometer-based solution, as I recall reading.
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Old 27-12-2012, 06:16   #93
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So to take a summary of this thread. The OPs hypothesis is not regarded as having any real validity. Navigators have been making errors for 100s of years and everything is a tool, typically built on the knowledge of its predecessor.


next.

Dave
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Old 27-12-2012, 08:05   #94
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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(MarkJ forgets that when the Iphone comes unstapled, in 2050, there will be those that have an old Garmin that can still receive a shaky old constellation of 1990's r.
I was interested to find out that my new iPad (child's toy and barely worth the money!) uses GLONASS (the Russian system) for its GPS.
So with my Garmin using the USA satellites, and the Raymarine using them. Raymarine as well as three that are sort of greyed out.... A bit weird! The book makes some reference but I canna understand.
My Arab sat phone's GPS uses who knows what.

But I think I have every satellite in the sky beaming onto Sea Life.
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Old 27-12-2012, 08:22   #95
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

I think the iPad will use both systems, but its not obvious which satellites its using. Could be handy if the GPS goes down (which I think is highly unlikely)

Does anyone know an app that will display the satellite signal rom the iPad. I have found a few that will give the error, or a bar showing signal quality, but noting displaying the satellites used for the fix?

It would help answer if these new GPS units can get a fix from the Russian system alone.
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Old 27-12-2012, 08:37   #96
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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I was interested to find out that my new iPad (child's toy and barely worth the money!) uses GLONASS (the Russian system) for its GPS.
I think that the cellular versions of the mini and the iPad 3 are using both GLONASS and GPS. That's the way I'm reading the Apple literature anyway.
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Old 27-12-2012, 09:35   #97
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

Cast iron skillet and transistor radio for station null finding.
VHF = new technology = short distance (horizon)
AM = old technology = longer range (over the horizon)

Every method, device, and application has its place, depending on your present condition.
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Old 27-12-2012, 09:35   #98
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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Does anyone know an app that will display the satellite signal rom the iPad. I have found a few that will give the error, .
Yeah, the ap I have is pretty useless. It's called GPS Data. It only gives L&L and error etc, not the sats used.

I checked my facts and iPad does use combined GLONASS and GPS. I must have gotten my Apple litriture strangled...
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Old 27-12-2012, 10:16   #99
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
So to take a summary of this thread. The OPs hypothesis is not regarded as having any real validity. Navigators have been making errors for 100s of years and everything is a tool, typically built on the knowledge of its predecessor.


next.

Dave
but Andrew_Troup or anyone else is welcome to offer a rebuttal or clarification to the argument-
apparently not as the thread heading "Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?"
has it.

I paraphrase it here as:
"...that the nowadays common use of GPS/Plotter is a quantum leap into danger and ignorance"
But,this argument should include proof and "a quantum leap" is the argument to be proved.... It can be opposed to, say, "the drunks in a speedboat navigating with a roadmap" , that are pre-gps....

added: perhaps, you'd need proof like:
"Garmin Recalls Plotters-Sailboat on the rocks again "
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Old 27-12-2012, 10:28   #100
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

It's commonly assumed for some reason that prior to GPS navigational mistakes were rare. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Like the Trimaran I met in Ha'apai we were anchored within sight of the only distinctive landmark, a volcanic island, yet his position was about 50 miles out.
At that stage the trimaran had sailed half way around the world. The skipper had no idea how to use a sextant ( this was prior to GPS).
There will always be idiots and the incompetent, but sailors are much safer with GPS.
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Old 27-12-2012, 10:54   #101
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

A fancy wrench does not make bad mechanic a good machanic. The same is true for a navigator I supppose.
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Old 27-12-2012, 10:58   #102
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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A fancy wrench does not make bad mechanic a good machanic. The same is true for a navigator I supppose.
We could all agree, however, that a fancy wrench will not make a bad mechanic a good navigator.
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Old 27-12-2012, 11:05   #103
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pirate Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
It's commonly assumed for some reason that prior to GPS navigational mistakes were rare. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Like the Trimaran I met in Vava'u we were anchored within sight of the only distinctive landmark, a volcanic island, yet his position was about 50 miles out.
At that stage the trimaran had sailed half way around the world. The skipper had no idea how to use a sextant ( this was prior to GPS).
There will always be idiots and the incompetent, but sailors are much safer with GPS.
ROFL.... this thread reminds me of my Cherubini Hunter trans-atlantic... everyone in Oriental seemed overly concerned I only had one spare set of batteries for my h/h GPS...
'What if it runs down before you get across..' they asked...
'Well I wait till 1745 each evening once past 40W then correct my course accordingly..' I replied.
'Why 1745...????'
'Thats when the Air France SMX to Paris goes over...' I said...
and they believed me....
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Old 27-12-2012, 12:56   #104
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

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Originally Posted by Matt sachs View Post
A fancy wrench does not make bad mechanic a good machanic. The same is true for a navigator I supppose.
If anything, a fancy wench would only serve to DISTRACT either a mechanic or a navigator.

Oh. WRENCH.
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Old 27-12-2012, 13:13   #105
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Re: Distinct Activities: Shackled by a Common Name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
It's commonly assumed for some reason that prior to GPS navigational mistakes were rare. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Like the Trimaran I met in Ha'apai we were anchored within sight of the only distinctive landmark, a volcanic island, yet his position was about 50 miles out.
At that stage the trimaran had sailed half way around the world. The skipper had no idea how to use a sextant ( this was prior to GPS).
There will always be idiots and the incompetent, but sailors are much safer with GPS.
Sailors, both competent and idiot and everywhere in between, are safer having GPS than not. Safer still, with ALSO a sextant, a calculator, a watch and an almanac and some familiarity with their use in determining WTH they are.
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