Death to PAPER ! More Nails in the Paper Chart Coffin . . .

[Gadagirl]

My children ordered me a water proof case for my phone. They make them for ipads as well.

Here's an excerpt from their web site,

Full Waterproof IP-68 Protection
The LifeProof™ case has a unique design that makes it waterproof to a rated depth of 2 Meters (6.6ft) exceeding IP-68, the highest 'International Protection' rating. No other pocketable everyday case provides submersible protection.


http://www.lifeproof.com/lifeproof-store

[lookoutnw]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

My children ordered me a water proof case for my phone. They make them for ipads as well.

Here's an excerpt from their web site,

Full Waterproof IP-68 Protection
The LifeProof™ case has a unique design that makes it waterproof to a rated depth of 2 Meters (6.6ft) exceeding IP-68, the highest 'International Protection' rating. No other pocketable everyday case provides submersible protection.


LifeProof Store

But will it make it float? Now that would be nice. A brick is water proof to 500M, but at the bottom of the ocean it is water logged...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by doug86

....
It wasn't customer demand that drove the long distance carriers away, and it wasn't the phone companies who willingly gave that revenue up; it was the synergy of cellular technology that pretty much ended the concept of a long distance fee.

This didn't happen outside of the US until skype came along. The primary effect of mobiles was to render the enormous asset value of copper in the ground virtually valueless as telecoms infrastructure could be installed cheaply via mobile structures.

As more people want to get your attention, they might just find ways to get your the charts for free. A chart with a banner ad at the top, for instance. There are many ways I can think of that will bring more charts to more people for less money. Who would have thought that you could access high quality satellite photos of the earth for FREE?? Just click, zoom and there it is. Who is to say that Google won't start Google Marine? With buoys and depths and markers, all free.

Until we have a reliable global deep sea based communications infrastructure capable of Internet bandwidths none of this is technically feasible.

You seem to miss my point. We are already seeing a blurring of the distinction between specialist marine electronics and the generic PC. What I am proposing is that those two technologies are in fact merging, not competing for their own niche. I am saying that in 10 years, you will be able to do everything on your chart plotter that you now can do on your PC, and vise-versa. There will be no
difference.

No you miss my point. The unique factors in marine IT will always lend itself to specialised equipment. Both under the hood chartplotters are just PC techology anyway. ( furuno is XP, ray is unix) there's no merging of technology it's all the same.

Where we differ is that I beleive their will always be a Market for usage specific marine equipment.

Dave

[Don1500]

Originally Posted by wannago

And some of the marine electronics will remain specialty, depth sounders and speed paddles, radar, etc..

Wait a minute, speed paddles? I am just starting to get into consumer marine electronics, do you really get your speed info from paddles dragged through the water? I was in commercial marine electronics in the 80's and we used ultra sonic transducers for the speed log. Please tell me the pleasure marine electronics industry has progressed beyond paddles!

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by lookoutnw

But will it make it float? Now that would be nice. A brick is water proof to 500M, but at the bottom of the ocean it is water logged...

I don't think it floats. How ever I think it'll be great to protect against splashes, rain, spilt cocktails........while in the cockpit. Good point though. Maybe I'll attach a key chain floaty to mine! Dry bags work also, and they float if you keep some air in them.

[Don1500]

I think this thread is delving into the mentality of "If man were ment to fly God would have given him wings!" The age old argument what some people think of as the inevitable march progress against those that just can't see it. The thinking that the man in charge of the Patent office said in 1899. "We might as well close the patent office, all the inventions have been thought of already." I have come to the conclusion that if you can think of it, it will eventually be done, no matter how far out it may seam.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Don1500

I have come to the conclusion that if you can think of it, it will eventually be done, no matter how far out it may seam.

That's been my experience.

[jackdale]

Don

I am a bit of a skeptic.

My first grad work was in Studies of the Future. That made me quite wary of predictions.

My second was in educational technology; that made me skeptical of the technological imperative.

When I am planning a passage a 24 x 36 chart is more appropriate that trying to figure out what is on my Android phone screen. My android has marine traffic, mobile grib, charts and lots of other goodies. I regard it more as a toy.

I use technology. I have Navionics chats on my phone and portable GPS. I have a network with charts, a puck GPS and an IAS link. I love radar. Offshore I do use GPS for a fix; my celestial skills suck.

That being said;
1) I use paper charts for planning and plotting
2) I use official CHS tide and current tables
3) I can do various fixes using a handbearing compass and plotter
4) The light list is my friend at night

My concept of a heads up orientation is looking around me, not down at an 8" screen.

[Don1500]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Don

I am a bit of a skeptic.

My first grad work was in Studies of the Future. That made me quite wary of predictions.

My second was in educational technology; that made me skeptical of the technological imperative.

When I am planning a passage a 24 x 36 chart is more appropriate that trying to figure out what is on my Android phone screen. My android has marine traffic, mobile grib, charts and lots of other goodies. I regard it more as a toy.

I use technology. I have Navionics chats on my phone and portable GPS. I have a network with charts, a puck GPS and an IAS link. I love radar. Offshore I do use GPS for a fix; my celestial skills suck.

That being said;
1) I use paper charts for planning and plotting
2) I use official CHS tide and current tables
3) I can do various fixes using a handbearing compass and plotter
4) The light list is my friend at night

My concept of a heads up orientation is looking around me, not down at an 8" screen.

Lights! Dag nab it. I don't use them darn fool contraptions!

[wannago]

Originally Posted by Don1500

Wait a minute, speed paddles? I am just starting to get into consumer marine electronics, do you really get your speed info from paddles dragged through the water? I was in commercial marine electronics in the 80's and we used ultra sonic transducers for the speed log. Please tell me the pleasure marine electronics industry has progressed beyond paddles!

Really? maybe it's time I upgrade. My boat has a paddle mounted in the hull. The LCD on the display is crazed up and unreadable, but pulling the paddle out of the hull has some very unsophisticated issues associated.

I had been considering going to GPS only for speed, but we do get some tidal currents in my neighborhood that would throw a bit of a loop in on that.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Don1500

Please tell me the pleasure marine electronics industry has progressed beyond paddles!

Nope. Still paddle wheels getting fouled up. Ultrasonic exists but we can't afford it

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by doug86

Therapy, I think I was speaking more in a sort of hypothetical sense, although what I wrote is about 90% happening now with some of the technology. NOAA raster scan charts are free, and the price of private vector charts will come down quickly as the technology to produce them reaches the crowd-source level.

In a year or two, most new chart plotters will have wifi or internet cell capability (including new Garmins), and they will be receiving live updates when ever an internet connection is present. This service will be pretty cheap at first, and then become almost free as more and more companies compete to provide you with up to date info. The chart plotter companies like Garmin are already feeling the competition from PC based software that can use free charts. And, in some cases the software is free too (like OpenCPN). For a few hundred bucks, you can have a full feature chart plotter; why invest $4k in a Garmin?

In 5 years, daily chart updates will be available over most of the globe via inexpensive oneway satellite downloads, similar to what the SPOT devices now work on. These updates will include depth data that is probably only a few days old, not decades old.

By the year 2020, anyone reading this thread will be laughing uproariously at the idea that cruisers wanted to use paper charts, just as we do for anyone who claims that they rely on an RDF unit today.

Think of the internet; a wild, open world of information with thousands of resources using thousands of business models. You have many choices for just email. Some are free, some charge. You can subscribe to thousands of news feeds; some are free, some charge.

Imagine that system plugged into the needs of a navigator: thousands of ways to find the depths of a channel, some are free, some charge. Thousands of resources to provide you with a chart of the coastline if you have the software to see their product. Already, there are hundreds of sites that have tide data for the entire globe. Wind and weather at your mouse button for free.

The chart plotter companies (like Garmin) are still about 24 months behind the curve, and they are trying to catch up. Catching up with a web based service is very difficult for a hardware manufacturer. The task they are faced with is building a web browser, not a chart plotter. Christ, you can get a really great chart plotter for free if you own a cheap laptop. (OpenCPN)

The names in navigation today are Garmin, Furuno, Raymarine, Standard, Lowrance, Simrad etc. The names in navigation in 8 years might be Apple, Google, Mozilla, or ??

Roger that!

I need to sell my chart plotter (part of the boat) before they catch up!

[sneuman]

I have heard at least a dozen first-hand accounts of lightening strikes among cruisers in recent years. Nearly every one of them ends with the phrase "... fried all the electronics."

That alone militants against relying entirely on chartplotters.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by sneuman

"... fried all the electronics."

That alone militants against relying entirely on chartplotters.

Only if one is dopy enough to keep the electronics in short supply i.e. one of. Or keep them attached to the boats electricity during the electrical storm.

As I am not an idiot I have 3 plotters: The one at the helm that even though it would be off could still get friend. A laptop which sleeps in a bed; a Garmin handheld with lives in the oven; and a sat phone with GPS which stays in its tray. All unplugged.

So really just because someone thinks Paper Charts are un-safe it doesn't mean they are ding-a-lings.

By the way, watch out for the goat! They eat paper charts


Some of you guys need to put a toe into the new milennium.

[doug86]

Originally Posted by sneuman

I have heard at least a dozen first-hand accounts of lightening strikes among cruisers in recent years. Nearly every one of them ends with the phrase "... fried all the electronics."

Gosh, only a dozen? I've heard more accounts of cruising sailors having a collision with a whale, and most end with the word "sinking".

A lightening strike that causes a failure of all the electronics will probably destroy all the vital electrical stuff, like house batteries, alternator, starter, radar, bilge pumps. It may also cause hull damage, rig damage etc.

at approximately 3:00 PM on Sunday, July 27, the Spirit of South Carolina was off the east coast of Block Island when a strong line of squalls approached. The ship was struck by lightning, disabling most of the electronics onboard and the engine power which is controlled by electronic components. There were no injuries to passengers or crew. At the time of the bright blast the ship was operating in heavy weather mode with passengers down below and everything battened down while keeping a close eye on traffic. Other vessels in the same area were also struck by lightning. The Spirit of South Carolina is equipped with substantial lightning protection as well as surge protection in the electrical system.
....
We lost radios, GPS, and engines but thankfully were well prepared for the situation with a handheld GPS, handheld VHF radio and mobile phones.
Spirit of South Carolina | South Carolina Maritime Foundation | News

Notice the final sentence, praising the available backups on board. Not one mention of paper charts...