Death by GPS

[adoxograph]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

... Learning skills is fun for kids, they all know the buttons to push, but what other survival skills do they have?...

I absolutely agree with you Ann. Just spend an afternoon in an "old folks home" and you will see a vast amount of skills, which will soon be lost forever.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by adoxograph

I absolutely agree with you Ann. Just spend an afternoon in an "old folks home" and you will see a vast amount of skills, which will soon be lost forever.

Hell, mate, we LIVE in an old folks home, 'cause we're old folks!! But I taught my kids a few of the older skills when they were little, and i hope that they might do the same... but as the generations fade away, skills and knowledge fade as well. Been going on for centuries, I reckon, but the rate of disappearance seems to be accelerating.

Kinda sad, but then those young'uns think our lack of iphone skills is kinda sad...

Jim

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by adoxograph

Never heard of redundancy? I think most of us have at least one backup GPS system if not several backups in case the backup fails.

I use navionics, open cpn and sas planet all 3 are helpful. I also use my eyes, depth sounder, common sense and gut feelings. With phone , tablets , computers and built in chartplotters I must have 8 or so electric chart plotters onboard. I also carry a steel box to use as a faradays cage. Those that believe a lightning strike will wipe it all out could be right but it will most likely alter the accuracy of my compasses as well as destroy my log. I embrace modern technology and wouldn't go back this doesn't mean you stop using other tools such as eyes and ears.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[DeepCut]

GPS is very useful for boring or flying. BUT you have to know how to use it.Also Key is redundancy.

Flying, you combine GPS with charts and instrument approaches, and you must have "situational awareness. You (Appears from OP, he was not an instrument pilot) were looking IN when you should look out. I would never taxi to hanger using GPS.
Need to know where you want to go, and more importantly NOT go. Also must know HOW to use your GPS functions. My GPS usually has me at an EPE(Estimate Position Error) of 6-8 feet. Try being that accurate at 200mph with a sextant....

Redundancy is also key. (My airplane has 2 separate permanent GPS, iPad and iPhone each have aviation GPS... If all diodes go out, compass and radio signals). Having some paper charts on boat is prudent.

I feel planning on paper charts is helpful for costal navigation. But don't underestimate the value of GPS.

[adoxograph]

Originally Posted by DeepCut

My GPS usually has me at an EPE(Estimate Position Error) of 6-8 feet. Try being that accurate at 200mph with a sextant...

I usually move with 4-8kn. It is boring to watch the GPS drawing a line at those speeds. Using the sextant is so much more fun and if I compare my sextant fix with what the GPS displays the GPS is always 0.3 to 0.7 NM (sometimes up to 2 NM) off

PS: Do they still make aeronautical sextants with artificial horizons build in?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Hell, mate, we LIVE in an old folks home, 'cause we're old folks!! But I taught my kids a few of the older skills when they were little, and i hope that they might do the same... but as the generations fade away, skills and knowledge fade as well. Been going on for centuries, I reckon, but the rate of disappearance seems to be accelerating.

Kinda sad, but then those young'uns think our lack of iphone skills is kinda sad...

Jim

The problem Jim is.. the defenders of the new will always outnumber the old by 100's to 1..
Its kinda like the missionaries of yore sneering at the old tribal taboo's..

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Jsta_Rebel

I personally don't believe people driving with GPS are loosing their power of reasoning.

I don't either. I think most of them lost it a long time ago. Or, if they do have any reasoning power, then they carefully, deliberately, and studiously avoid using it while they are driving!

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by zboss

My general feeling is that masters and crew that don't use chartplotters correctly probably never used a compass correctly either.

Exactly.



Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.

[dwedeking2]

The fault isn't with the technology and "banning" it doesn't solve the problem. The problem is with the people using it. I'd love to say it's "the youngin's" but I see it with people in my generation (I'm mid 40's). They don't pay attention to what's going on around them (have no situational awareness), lack the ability to reason through problems, and expect some paternal force (police, coast guard, etc) to provide a solution if they become confused. It's a far deeper problem than getting from point A to point B.

I've refocused on learning some basic skills to give me a sense of security (knowing I can revert to these basic skills in time of need so I'm not reliant upon modern technology) but I think it's foolish to abandon modern technology because it's not "real" navigation (or whatever skill) as it can greatly increase ease of use and end results (as long as it's kept in prespective) and no one else in the world is impressed that you do it "the real/manly way". All you do is make your life harder without benefit.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

The fault isn't with the technology and "banning" it doesn't solve the problem. The problem is with the people using it. I'd love to say it's "the youngin's" but I see it with people in my generation (I'm mid 40's). They don't pay attention to what's going on around them (have no situational awareness), lack the ability to reason through problems, and expect some paternal force (police, coast guard, etc) to provide a solution if they become confused. It's a far deeper problem than getting from point A to point B.

I've refocused on learning some basic skills to give me a sense of security (knowing I can revert to these basic skills in time of need so I'm not reliant upon modern technology) but I think it's foolish to abandon modern technology because it's not "real" navigation (or whatever skill) as it can greatly increase ease of use and end results (as long as it's kept in prespective) and no one else in the world is impressed that you do it "the real/manly way". All you do is make your life harder without benefit.

Yup... I like to keep the old skills as well.
During my time in the States folks could never figure why I preferred to walk the 1 mile to the store/diner/bars and back rather than accept the often offered 'Ride'..

[Bertie68]

IMO, the problem with these technologies is that they give a sense of false security that leads to overreliance. We tend to think the real world is as depicted in the GPS display, and that's not always the case. Same with the internet. Somehow, we've come to think that what's not in Google doesn't exist, but there is a lot of knowledge that can only be found offline.

[hpeer]

Once I was visiting Oregon. Using a map I was trying to drive through some forested areas to check out the scenery. It was only later I realized the "road" (poor rut was more accurate I had been following was really a county line on the map. Seems I was not the first to make that mistake.

As to GPS I have noticed in myself that I know less of a car driven route when using GPS.

On the boat I use a variety of paper, electronic maps/charts, and plotters. I really, really need the heads up, North orientation of a traditional map even if I only see it on the screen. But I also use the GPS to help keep me straight and oriented, especially at night when the lights can be so confusing.

[nautical62]

It makes sense that when people come to rely heavily on a new technology, many will be come less proficient at other technologies or techniques.

I imagine when the sextant became common, people became less adept at using the cross-staff.

[adoxograph]

Originally Posted by nautical62

It makes sense that when people come to rely heavily on a new technology, many will be come less proficient at other technologies or techniques.

I imagine when the sextant became common, people became less adept at using the cross-staff.

Hey I still drop the wooden board on the line and count the knots

[hpeer]

Another observation. My Wife has a devil of a time with any kind of orientation. Just this week I asked her to steer for a bit while I prepped the anchor to drop. Actually not steer, just monitor course as we were on the AP. While prepping the anchor I felt something wrong and stood up to see she had made a 90° turn. She had no clue, zero.

Apparently when she was getting behind the helm she brushed the AP dial and moved it. before her taking the helm I had pointed out some landmarks. When I came to the cockpit ( yelling of course) she was squinting at the plotter to see what was wrong. Still no clue. Despite all the possible inputs; landmarks, compas, wind indicator, chart plotter, she still had zero idea there was a problem.

I'm starting to think that there is a visual problem. She wears glasses and her distant vision is not good but adequate. My theory, based on her history, is this: as a child her eyesight slowly degraded. She kept making adjustments, from her perspective nothing was wrong. Eventually, around 14 me one picked up on her oddities in school and got her parents to test her eyes. By then she was very nearsighted.

Throgh her developmental years she was denied distant consequently her brain learned to disregard that input. She was very "bookish" and her hobbies involved minatures. So I think some part of her brain is atrophied. She hates maps and Binos. I think it contributed to her motion sickness.

We have been working on this, now with some more insight. I think we will make progress, I hope. The brain is an interesting thing.