Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-07-2010, 20:09   #46
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
The Kindle can show pdfs but one cannot change the font size. One cannot zoom either. Charts in pdf format used on the Kindle would be pretty useless.
Which Kindle do you have? I just looked at the new one on Amazon, and it says you can zoom.
__________________

__________________
off-the-grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 21:20   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere in the South Pacific
Boat: 1984 CS 36
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunzster View Post
It really is just using electronics to view paper charts.
if you're using a battery powered flashlight to look at your paper charts, i'll give it to you. otherwise you're using electronics to view digitized data, and there's really no way around it. the fact that it's somewhat less useful (sans GPS) doesn't turn it back into paper

don't get me wrong - i'm not convinced it's a bad idea. i just think you're fooling yourself if you're trying to argue that you've got paper charts on board
__________________

__________________
kb79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 21:31   #48
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Its a nice have. I downloaded a $5 app for my iPad today. I imagine the more expensive version of navigation software is much better, but I was impressed. Generally speaking, whether its an iPad or a Laptop or a chartplotter - doesnt matter much. i do like electronic charts. Pick your poison, but better have a backup - paper. (oh no my dog ate it)
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 22:38   #49
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb79 View Post
don't get me wrong - i'm not convinced it's a bad idea. i just think you're fooling yourself if you're trying to argue that you've got paper charts on board
I agree, and I'm not entirely sold on it either. But you can't argue not that it's at least a little bit of a gray area between the old paper vs. electronics debate.
__________________
off-the-grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 23:31   #50
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Allow me to plug the Kindle in general; fantastic device for reading books. A lot of sailing authors (including the Pardeys) have their books "kindle available". I've been reading way more now than I did before. Truly one of the best purchases I've made in years. It sounds cheesy but it's really changed my life.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 09:19   #51
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunzster View Post
Which Kindle do you have? I just looked at the new one on Amazon, and it says you can zoom.

That is news to me.

I'll have a look.

edit -

Yep, so it says on Amazon.
"Built-In PDF Reader: Carry and read all of your personal and professional documents on the go. Now with Zoom capability to easily view small print and detailed tables or graphics."

So time marches on and things get better and better.

The DX ($359.) would be pretty cool I guess.

The Wi-fi 6" (139.00) -
Enhanced PDF Reader – With dictionary lookup, notes, and highlights

Nothing about zoom.


The 3g + Wi-fi 6" (189.00)

Enhanced PDF Reader – With dictionary lookup, notes, and highlights
Same, same.

So the DX at 359.00 might work. That is a lot for a reader (my use) and a plotter in black and white.

I think I would get the basic reader and paper or the basic reader and a small chart plotter.

Dunno what will come up in another month or so the way things keep passing me up.

I can see a small basic reader for 40 bucks in the near future. Look what a gps chip is now!

edit again.

Just a thought though - If the DX is a back up of charts for navigation and used as a reader then using the reader, ie, taking it in the cockpit to read, leaving on the salon table, putting it in a backpack with the laundry for that long dry cycle........well, it just seems defeating the purpose of a "safe" backup plan, carting it around "at risk" and all that.........
__________________
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 19:14   #52
Obsfucator, Second Class
 
dacust's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southeast USA.
Boat: 1982 Sea Ray SRV360
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunzster View Post
I agree, and I'm not entirely sold on it either. But you can't argue not that it's at least a little bit of a gray area between the old paper vs. electronics debate.
I think I can argue that.

A PDF on a Kindle is just another document type requiring a different program, running on a different computer. It's not any closer to a paper chart than a BSB or a vector chart.
  • A BSB chart is a raster image.
  • A vector chart is a vector image.
  • A PDF is just a vector document that can contain vector or raster images.
  • A Word document is another type of document that can contain different types of information.

All the above document types require a program that is designed to read them and a computer to run the program.

So, PDFs on a Kindle is a valid electronic backup/redundancy for another electronic solution, but it is not the same as using paper charts for a backup. But it is an inferior backup compared with having a second GPS. The Kindle cannot plot your position on the PDF.

Notes:
  • I am NOT arguing that you MUST have paper charts. I am only saying PDF charts on a computer of any kind is not the same type of backup/redundancy as paper charts. No gray area.
  • I am NOT saying having PDFs on a Kindle has no value.
-dan
dacust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 19:51   #53
cruiser

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor954 View Post
Although not even close to being a direct strike on GAME PLAN, we suffered several fried circuit boards on the TV, GPS, and the RADAR. All of these were turned off and the GPS was a handheld portable.
Nah - I stand by my statement. If the equipment is connected to the grounding system of the boat, even if it is turned off, it has a pretty direct connection to the energy from the strike. When you turn off the power or circuit breakers on your boat, you're breaking half the connection. The other half is well connected to a lot of other wiring. That includes TV's, radios, radars, microwaves, etc, no matter if they are being used or even if your entire electrical panel is switched off.

If there is absolutely no connection, like a mobile phone or a handheld GPS in a pocket or sitting on a table (and not being charged), I don't believe there will be enough current induced to fry anything. If that were the case, the high voltage would certainly be enough to overcome the impedance of your skin allowing current to flow across your chest, causing your heart to go into ventricular fibrillation. You'd be dead in 6 minutes and you wouldn't really care about the ultimate state of your electronics.
__________________
ActiveCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 20:38   #54
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Lightning strikes generate an EMP blast as well as just the current transmission. And there are people who get injured by just being too close to the current without necessarily acting as part of the circuit. Not really arguing one way or another but if you have a cell phone a couple of feet away from a lightning strike I think you walk away with a paper weight. At minimum it will cause it to reset itself and blow away the volatile memory.

I'd like to take this time to thank the US Navy for teaching me boring facts about lightning which I have suppressed in my memory until this date.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2010, 20:45   #55
Moderator... short for Cat Wrangler
 
sarafina's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Cal 28 Flush Deck
Posts: 5,559
Images: 56
I don't know if these count at too expensive to you (they do to me but we got them anyway) but they are sort of a nice version of the paper charts made out of waterproof paper, which can be folded without getting all munged up.

Maptech NOAA Nautical Charts
__________________
Sara

ain't what ya do, it's the way that ya do it...
sarafina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010, 07:20   #56
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,249
Warning: thread drift (is that allowed since I'm the OP?)

rebel heart & Therapy - Did either of you guys try the Kindel app, before getting the Kindel? I've kind of been throwing the idea around anyway to try to cut down on the clutter. The one thing that's holding me back is it seems a lot of my library and my to get list aren't available on it yet.

You could always put all that money towards another laptop and antenna, and a stack of extra laptop batteries.

dacust - Ok, you win. If I did this, it wouldn't entirely eliminate paper anyway. I'm thinking I'd use the Kindel just for more detailed charts, and keep a few larger large scale paper charts, as a few others have said they do. And of course, I have a small printer on board, so I could always print any of the charts I have.
__________________
off-the-grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010, 10:00   #57
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunzster View Post

rebel heart & Therapy - Did either of you guys try the Kindle app, before getting the Kindle?

No.
I did research on the common readers available and picked the Kindle for my wife and son - gifts.
The reason for them was for reading books. Nothing else. I did the math and with the number of books my wife reads the Kindle paid for itself in three months! Now I have one of my own and though it is not "paid for" yet, I no longer like to read paper books because of the way one has to hold it and control it's pages.
Truly a breakthrough for us and worth it for us.
There are places that one can get books for far less than the 9.99 from Amazon.
Again though, we use them to read books and only that. I don't see it to be good for much of anything else.

PS accidently corrected your Kindel spelling.
__________________
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010, 11:10   #58
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ActiveCaptain View Post

If there is absolutely no connection, like a mobile phone or a handheld GPS in a pocket or sitting on a table (and not being charged), I don't believe there will be enough current induced to fry anything. If that were the case, the high voltage would certainly be enough to overcome the impedance of your skin allowing current to flow across your chest, causing your heart to go into ventricular fibrillation. You'd be dead in 6 minutes and you wouldn't really care about the ultimate state of your electronics.
I know you are "out there" and I am not but you are just wrong.

From another forum from a well regarded poster.
"MY Garmin GPS Map 176 that was inside the nav table is also toast even though it was not wired to anything..............Oh even my iPod is toast and LED compass light."

This is not uncommon in a strike.

Here is another example of how fickle it is.
"...Lightning is strange indeed.. My boat took a hit few years back while in the slip and connected to shore power.. battery charger and air conditioner/dehumidifier was on.. I lost the VHF (completely dead), attached photo is of the remains of a Shakespere antenna from the mast top; the aft nav light bulb exploded in the housing, The “reverse polarity” indicator light was blown across the boat and was on the shelf on opposite side; Fuse in LORAN unit was blown but unit worked after fuse replacement; The air conditioner fan speed control went to high speed and could not be adjusted (blown thyristor) ; Two DC circuit breakers cases were blown open but the breakers still worked.. There was soot tracking on the back of the electrical panel that went from the nav light switch around to the shore power ground buss.. the arc traveled about 6-8” to get to the AC ground. Other photo, hard to see)
Things which were not damaged.. Rigging swedging, terminals and wire.. Alternator, starter, engine wiring.. air conditioner mechanics.. bow nav light ! (on same circuit as blown apart stern light) , anchor light (2” from VHF aerial), steaming and deck lights, battery charger (old ferro-resonant, I’ll bet the new Xantrex would not have made it). None of the LEDs in the breaker panel were harmed. A small portable CD player laying next to the VHF was not damaged.. Depth and knotlog were fine. No damage to cabin lights or any wiring. Both slip neighbors boats were all ok.. masts about 10’ shorter than mine...."

I wonder if a kindle would make it through.

Paper sure would.
__________________
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010, 11:45   #59
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
"It's called Induced Voltage "
There any many ways to transfer power and when the high power of a lightning strike goes by, it induces electromagnetic eddy currents in any conductor that is nearby. The human body is a lousy conductor compared to a metal rod or case, which is why your compass may spin and be defluxed and forever point "southwest" instead of north after a nearby strike, while the humans abroad have no ther damage besides the bright spots in front of their eyes, some singed hair, and pee in their pants and shoes.
The typical NWS suggestion for public safety during lightning storms is to get more than 30 miles away from the storm, because it can strike out that far from the cloud, and then STAY that far from the storm. Or, get into the deepest dryest sub-basement you can find, and wait it out.
Sailors on a boat? Fish in a barrel!
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010, 13:06   #60
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Paper sure would.
Well, unless it catches on fire.
__________________

__________________
off-the-grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charts

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paper Charts and GPS Charlie Navigation 236 31-03-2010 21:14
PAPER CHARTS ed stewart Navigation 11 19-02-2008 20:23
Used Paper Charts Quercus Classifieds Archive 0 15-01-2008 13:01
Looking for paper charts ess105 Atlantic & the Caribbean 2 12-04-2007 19:15
Used paper charts available Bob Navigation 1 30-07-2003 02:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.