Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-07-2010, 19:35   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
Yes, a lightening strike may take out your electronic charts. But it is a very remote possibility. Here's how I address the risk:

All my charts are on my MacBook and iPhone. Incidentally they are the latest updates versions not the cruiser's favorite "Not a Chart. Not for Navigation".

I have just a few (5?) paper charts for planning and backup. These are the charts that cover an entire cruising area, e.g. South China Sea, West Coast of North America. They are around 1:3,500,000 scale.

If my electronics fail, I will use the dead-reckoning on the paper charts to approach near a harbor. Amazingly, near most all harbors will be other cruisers, ships, fishermen. I will impose on these kind seafarers to point the way to the harbor. Or simply follow them in.

I'm comfortable with this situation.
__________________

__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2010, 20:12   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere in the South Pacific
Boat: 1984 CS 36
Posts: 238
i hadn't thought about imposing on other boats - that's a solid point, daddle.
__________________

__________________
kb79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2010, 20:33   #18
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Lightning strikes are rare. A lot of damage also has to do with your grounding system and how it gets out of the boat. Having the same grounding connected to your VHF radio - well, not aok for SaltyMonkey.

Having charts is not only a good idea but I think should be the main conduit of your navigation, with electronics for real time updates and for planning only. Besides, you can spread out your chart and get a whole whoppa of whats going on - pencils or black markers on chart protectors are fun
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2010, 21:13   #19
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
+ 2 on a chartbook.

I can look at a chartbook from 15 years ago and see exactly where I anchored each night on a given cruise. But the electronic "charts" from back then have long ago become e-waste, victims of technologies no longer supported by my newer electronics.

obsolescence destroys a lot more electronic navigation aids than lightning.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2010, 21:39   #20
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post

obsolescence destroys a lot more electronic navigation aids than lightning.
Boy ain't that the truth. Just look around at all the yachts on market, and seems a total refresh is needed on any of them. I give electronics a lifetime of 5 years (based on market longevity)
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 00:30   #21
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
If you opt to do all your planning with electronic charts do keep in mind one severe disadvantage of them:

Detail appears and disappears according to scale (zoom level). I've heard of a few cases of boats running right onto rocks because the skippers didn't refer to paper charts and didn't zoom in to the necessary level of detail over the whole passage route.

Zooming in to look at the whole route is impossibly awkward on a chart plotter. An I-Pad with its very efficient scrolling and zooming might be better.

But for me, anyway, nothing can replace a paper chart for planning purposes, for general orientation, and so forth. I wouldn't sail without them (I also would never sail without my simple handheld GPS as a backup for knowing position).

For our waters, we get handy-size Imray charts, I think they're A2 size so no problem to store at all. They are waterproof and come in packs of a dozen or so for thirty or forty bucks. It's a no-brainer, for us anyway.

Paper charts work in perfect synergy with the electronic navigation systems, because after studying the paper charts and planning the passage, you know what you're looking at on the chart plotter.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 00:41   #22
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Boy ain't that the truth. Just look around at all the yachts on market, and seems a total refresh is needed on any of them. I give electronics a lifetime of 5 years (based on market longevity)
Useful life of marine electronics is a direct function of the pockets of the owner. Some people replace them every time a new refinement comes out (2 -- 3 years); some replace them every time a new generation (major revision) comes out -- 5 years or so; others replace them only when they are so obsolete that they cease to be supported by the maker (15 to 20 years). I've seen plenty of cruisers happily using 15+ year old electronic navigation gear.

Our systems are original to the boat -- 10 years old. Raymarine Pathfinder radar, RL80CRC+ at the nav table, RL70RC+ at the helm, etc. It is all networked and was state of the art (and very expensive) in its day.

Except for a dodgy gyro heading sensor it all works fine and so I'm still undecided whether to (a) wait for one more generation to come out (I'm one major revision behind now); or (b) replace it as soon as I can afford it while the old equipment still has some value.

Amazingly, the 10 year old, one generation obsolete gear still brings serious $$ on Fleabay. I wanted to buy a color RL70 to replace the monochrome one on my helm -- can't do it; costs almost as much as the up to date gear, even on the Flea. Hmm.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 09:07   #23
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Yes the rule in some of the books is 1) electronics go out of market by manufacturer in 5 years. 2) obsolete and need replacement in 10 years. But, I think with todays world its more like 2-3.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 09:28   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
...And every generation they rev the quality down a notch. Some penny pincher realizes that 4 stainless screws could be replaced with steel to save 4 cents per unit. That they can use even shoddier wires and crummier connectors to save another dime. That the plastic can be even a lower grade. That the money saved on ineffective weatherproofing can be better spent on glitzy web pages bragging about weatherproofing.
__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 10:17   #25
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Detail appears and disappears according to scale (zoom level).
True, but that's only if your looking at digital charts. If you looking at digital versions of the paper charts (PDFs of all those booklets for example), the details will remain the same, no matter what the scale. I do agree it can be kind of a PITA to zoom and scroll, though. Maybe I'll stick with paper until they come out with a Kindel/iPad generation that has at least a 15" or so screen?
__________________
off-the-grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 10:20   #26
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Yeah, and then there is the inner head salesman in me, which runs something like this.

"Hi there...I see you are a solo sailor....thinking of a radar unit? Well, thats a great great deal I gotta say, because I think you realize that that ol CARD system you are using is a bit unsafe for those quick sleeps. Suuure, ships have radar but did you ever think of other boats which may not be carrying them? Hmmm now did you?

Now take a look at this cheap baby to get you in the game...well, you're going to need a chartplotter to read that information. You didn't think just buying a dome is enough did you? thats laughable

...and how about an AIS Tranmitter/Receiver juuuust as insurance in case those big mama container ships can't see your wee little dot on their screen...and for sure you can see them....why not right?

....I see you are getting a Monitor wind vane....well...what are you gonna do when teh wind is low, or you are motoring? Gotta have an electric these days that can tie into all your other system information....

...well, since you have a monitor wind vane may I suggest also getting an extra electric one just in case your wheel electric goes out you have a fall back electric that can be used with your monitor?

...and to reeealy reeealy track carefully I might suggest you get yourself a rudder indicator...

...how about a handheld remote so you can steer the autopilot from the bow? Well, I know a couple who found it useful navigating coral atolls.

...lets not forget the GPS unit. I suggest two so they can be used independently, such as for your radio or AIS unit, and in case one fails.

...and then of course instrumentation...you need some that can be interfaces into all your network devices - depth, speed, and especially wind.

...speaking of depth...did you ever consider some forward scanning sonar fishfinder like unit...afterall you never know what's in front of you these days with the trash in the ocean and orcas all around you waiting to bite you. Bummer right?

...now lets talk radios...you need an SSB so you don't get lonely, and probably a modem to pick up GRIBS and send emails and positions to your blog. Also a VHF for thats pretty well established as common, and can be used as a hailer and foghorn.

...being a sensible person you probably need some handheld VHF's - one for your pocket and one for the ditch bag in case you go overboard.

...hey, how about some EPIRBS too? May I suggest 3? One for your ship, one for you, and one for you ditch bag?

...Now were talkin. How about a Iridium phone, so you can call your girlfriends from time to time to make sure they aren't cheating on you?

...Oh wait...some charts perhaps?

...You have some real power there man. Im impressed, but how you gonna charge it? How about 4 new spankin gell batteries, and 2 solar panels. Well, you might as well get a wind generator too because that sun ain't always available for your pretty boat. OOps lets not forget the regulator/controller.

...Hey, i know you will need some extra stuff, so I just grabbed it. Didn't think you mind: antennas, cables, etc. Here's an interface for your PC into the network and wow, and inverter for that PC and screen."

geez$$$$$$
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 10:48   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
There are a lot more people hitting rocks staring into chart plotters than using hand bearing compasses and paper charts.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 10:54   #28
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
There are a lot more people hitting rocks staring into chart plotters than using hand bearing compasses and paper charts.
Yeah, but what about my new sort of middle ground idea?

How about a hand bearing compass and a chart on a Kindel...or iPad?
__________________
off-the-grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 11:05   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunzster View Post
Yeah, but what about my new sort of middle ground idea?

How about a hand bearing compass and a chart on a Kindel...or iPad?
My $0.02:

Don't get me wrong, I love my GPS, have been a software developer for over a decade, plow through books on my Kindle, have a great netbook and power house laptop, etc. I'm hardly Thoreau on Walden Pond.

But you get good at whatever you do often, so I'd rather keep my "never fail / time tested" skills sharp. Doing things manual keeps you in touch with the elements. I'd bet good money that the folks with chart plotters and laptops in the cockpit don't even own a hand bearing compass, let alone use it frequently. Which means your CBDR skills are getting rusty.

Works for me, not looking down at people who do it differently.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2010, 11:06   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere in the South Pacific
Boat: 1984 CS 36
Posts: 238
how're you gunna plot a DR on your ipad?
__________________

__________________
kb79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charts

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paper Charts and GPS Charlie Navigation 236 31-03-2010 21:14
PAPER CHARTS ed stewart Navigation 11 19-02-2008 20:23
Used Paper Charts Quercus Classifieds Archive 0 15-01-2008 13:01
Looking for paper charts ess105 Atlantic & the Caribbean 2 12-04-2007 19:15
Used paper charts available Bob Navigation 1 30-07-2003 02:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.