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Old 30-11-2018, 07:12   #16
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

I have made this trip numerous times. My boat is in the Chesapeake. Better to wait for the spring when winds are predictably out of the Southwest. Also, you are going to be exposed to the cold for 48 to 72 hours. You are underestimating the effect that the cold damp Atlantic we'll have on that. Although the ambient weather forecast maybe for 40 to 50 degrees, it will be easily 20 degrees colder with wind chill and dampness. I delivered a boat in May of this year from the Chesapeake Bay to Manhattan. The outside temperature was 60 to 70 degrees until night fell and the wind shifted and was coming off of the Atlantic. Even though we were appropriately clothed, we were shivering. The only real tuck in on the Jersey coast for you would be Cape May and then Atlantic City. Once you leave Atlantic City you'll go all the way to the Ambrose channel to go under the bridge if I am presuming you were going the inside route. I agree with everyone else. I think you're asking for trouble to do this type of trip on a new boat at this time of year. if for no other reason, the short daylight. You do this trip in the spring you'll have much more daylight towards the end of the day which will make your exit and approach to unknown harbors much safer.

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In preparation for your trip, you'll need an Eldridge coastal pilot, as well as two chartbooks: Chesapeake Bay to cape May and Delaware bay, and cape May to New York. If you have never sailed down the Delaware in to Delaware Ave, you will want to study that chart and no it ahead of time. The Eldridge will be crucial for timing your exit as well as your approach to New York and the Atlantic City inlet.
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Old 30-11-2018, 07:48   #17
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

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Originally Posted by bensolomon View Post
I have made this trip numerous times. My boat is in the Chesapeake. Better to wait for the spring when winds are predictably out of the Southwest. Also, you are going to be exposed to the cold for 48 to 72 hours. You are underestimating the effect that the cold damp Atlantic we'll have on that. Although the ambient weather forecast maybe for 40 to 50 degrees, it will be easily 20 degrees colder with wind chill and dampness. I delivered a boat in May of this year from the Chesapeake Bay to Manhattan. The outside temperature was 60 to 70 degrees until night fell and the wind shifted and was coming off of the Atlantic. Even though we were appropriately clothed, we were shivering. The only real tuck in on the Jersey coast for you would be Cape May and then Atlantic City. Once you leave Atlantic City you'll go all the way to the Ambrose channel to go under the bridge if I am presuming you were going the inside route. I agree with everyone else. I think you're asking for trouble to do this type of trip on a new boat at this time of year. if for no other reason, the short daylight. You do this trip in the spring you'll have much more daylight towards the end of the day which will make your exit and approach to unknown harbors much safer.

Ben

In preparation for your trip, you'll need an Eldridge coastal pilot, as well as two chartbooks: Chesapeake Bay to cape May and Delaware bay, and cape May to New York. If you have never sailed down the Delaware in to Delaware Ave, you will want to study that chart and no it ahead of time. The Eldridge will be crucial for timing your exit as well as your approach to New York and the Atlantic City inlet.
Thank you for the advice. The run from AC to Ambrose is definitely the primary concern. Barnegat doesn't seem to be a great inlet in case things aren't going well....
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Old 30-11-2018, 08:03   #18
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

Agree, Barnegat would be my last choice, especially if it's kicked up.

We have gone into Manasquan a few times and is fairly good under most conditions. It is a relatively deep inlet but not too much there except for a small marina after the RR lift bridge (usually open unless train is coming). Would want to check to see if they are still open before the trip.


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Old 30-11-2018, 08:33   #19
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

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Originally Posted by svenskflicka View Post
Thank you for the advice everyone. I am definitely strongly reconsidering the idea.

It's a 2013 Salona 38.

The initial (now being reconsidered) idea was to wait for a 2-3 day weather window (40-50 degrees, seas 2-3ft) and basically motor sail up in one shot.

I'm well versed in cold weather camping/skiing/hunting, so the prospect of being in near freezing temperatures for 48 hours isn't the biggest concern.

What you all said about it not being the time/place for a shakedown cruise is resonating with me though and I think you are right.

How much "nicer" would the ride be in April though? The sea temps are probably similar, if not colder in April (air temps are another story).
We did Portmouth VA to Newport RI along the NJ coast in March of this year. Similar to Dec in some respects due to colder water. Overnight run seems to be the only reasonable way. We passed under the Brooklyn Bridge at midnight at slack so lucky there, but the traffic volume amd navigating there in the dark was nerve wracking, plus we got to the Verranzo just in the nick of time as a NE gale started that had not been in the forecast 24 hours earlier. We did the length of LI Sound in white out snow conditions.

Our boat was well shaken down before the trip. I would likely not make that run in December in the boat and situation you describe. As others have said, ship it...

Enjoy your new boat!
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Old 30-11-2018, 08:39   #20
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

I'm familiar with the Nj coast, besides Atlantic City all the other inlets can be treacherous and in the winter the North Atlantic is nasty most of the time particularly this yea, it seems we have a storm every other day, not much of a window....I would wait till the spring
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Old 30-11-2018, 09:02   #21
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

Go outside around 10pm or if you are an early riser go out just after sunrise. Take a piece of line with you. Wet the line and your hands, then try tieing a few knots. Now reconsider your trip.
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Old 30-11-2018, 09:03   #22
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

My biggest concern is those New Jersey inlets. In either rapidly worsening weather, or in case the engine crapped out, there would be a very long distance to go to get to a sheltered place to drop the anchor or seek assistance. I have seen some videos of the NJ inlets when the wind picks up and they are truly treacherous. Once past Atlantic City, the next safe place to duck in is really Sandy Hook, and that is a long long way in a new to you boat.
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Old 30-11-2018, 09:35   #23
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

I have made the Chesapeake to NY & NE trips in both directions on sailboat of similar size. I had this boat for many years so I knew how she handled and what she sounded & felt like in all kinds of weather. As such, I did not feel uncomfortable in considering to sail from Boston non-stop to Baltimore thru the canal at the bottom of MA Bay to Cape May, then Cape May to Balto the next day in the beginning week of December. We had a good weather forecast for a planned non-stop trip which held until our entrance into the Delaware Bay. A serious low had formed in the Northern Chesapeake bay area which produced huge short-interval/steep waves down the Delaware Bay as we arrived. Both the waves and our vessel suggested we turn around and go back out the bay into the ocean and tuck into Cape May. Our mast was too high for the back door into Cape May. The next morning was in fog, up the Del. Bay and foggy conditions continued thru the C&D Canal and (sun came out) onto Balto. We had a Webasto diesel HEATER which maintained reasonable comfort. We also had an cockpit enclosure which kept that outside enclosed area warm, day & night.

If you insist on wanting to sail to the Long Island Sound in December 2018, i'd suggest the following: Sail down the Delaware River and get a slip at one of the marinas in Delaware City near the C&D canal. Go home. Come back to boat and sail (not single-handed) in that area with overnight anchoring over several days (either Delaware or Chesapeake Bays). Get comfortable with your new boat. Go home. Do again...... then decide to leave boat where it is, or sail to Cape May and drop the hook, get on a bus and go home or tie up in a marina till the next weather window can get you to AC (public transport home) or, weather permitting, up to a marina along the southside of Staten Island. Take public transportation home.



Unless you have had experience with Hell Gate in another sailboat, I'd have that be your last-leg adventure from either dropping the hook at the northern tip of NJ or from leaving the boat at a marina in Staten Island.

So, here is another option to consider [remember heat] while your get to be taught by your new vessel And Mother Nature. Please keep us posted.
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Old 30-11-2018, 09:42   #24
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

I delivered a sailboat years ago in Nov from NYC to Ft. Lauderdale. It was horrendous. Not a fun time. We literally had to switch watches every 30 minutes due to the cold and spray NYC, Cape May, Norfolk run. Hint ... wear a diving mask.



But to your concern. Running Cape May to NYC outside is of course the only option. But you have not considered unexpected weather, nor the issues that inevitably come with a new to you ... and even new boats on their first shakedown. If something breaks, you will need a port of refuge. And except for Cape May and Absecon, the other inlets can be dicey. Once inside, if needed, what marina will be open? Something to consider.


I would highly recommend you wait until Spring to make this critical journey.
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Old 30-11-2018, 11:22   #25
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

sven-
I would suggest that sailing it up IS practical and can be safe, if you plan first to take a weekend for some shake-down sailing, staying inshore from Cape May, on the river/bay. Plan to spend a couple of days just seeing that everything works, or what needs work, and making sure the engine and rigging are reliable. If everything is solid, then make plans for the ocean trip when there's a good weather window, and that's anyone's guess with the odd weather of the recent years.
The entire NJ shore should be considered a dangerous lee shore for sailboats. Because it is shallow for a way offshore, you will get more wave action than you expect. And the inlets--all of the inlets--can be impassible when the wind and tide are contrary. I knew someone who was presumed drowned, his boat found sunk close in to shore, maybe 12 years ago. The NJ State Police and the USCG both received calls of a vessel in distress--but they couldn't launch any assets due to "normal" fall stormy weather. No boats, no choppers, until the next day, when there was only the wreck to be found.
But as long as you can take the shakedown cruise so you have a reliable shot at making Sandy Hook, there should be no problem. Of course, the shakedown weekend may turn into two or three weeks of getting things fixed, but that's just boats, right?
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Old 30-11-2018, 11:23   #26
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

Delivered a 42 Tyana in December once many years ago, for a friend. Picked it up with two others in crew, in Haverstraw NY on the Hudson River and went down and round NYC and up Long Island Sound and then to Providence R.I. Aside from slipping on the frost covered deck one morning, there were no unusual incidents. However, I knew the boat very well.
Now lets discuss comfort. By the first night we disassembled the box around the engine to let some heat radiate. Hardly affected our DIScomfort. Slept in all clothing available and a winter sleeping bag. Was still cold. Being on deck for more than 2 hours at night was torture. Everyone on board had previous cold weather experience. I would never do it again without a source of heat in the boat. And certainly not in a boat I was not familiar with.
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Old 30-11-2018, 13:25   #27
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

I am a very experienced delivery captain (power and sail) and, on the face of it, this is a bad plan. New boat to you - untested. Very limited marina space and fuel options. Jersey coast (not to mention the Delaware Bay) can be very treacherous 6 - 15' seas, wind on the nose, salt spray freezing on the deck and rigging. No real help available (most SeaTow and BoatUS boats out of the water). Very few marine service shops open if you do - and you will - encounter problems. Last of all, what does your insurance company think of this transit? If you need more info, email me at captainbob5@comcast.net and I will provide a phone number - no charge for the advice.
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Old 30-11-2018, 17:07   #28
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

As a Long Island Sound sailor for 30 years I add my two cents by saying there is no such thing as a 3+ day weather window in NY harbor or LIS from December through March. Also, if you are off the New Jersey Coast at that time of year you would have a nasty time in any type of boat.
I agree with leaving the boat in or about Chester, working on it March into April and then heading up the Coast into NY Harbor. Make sure your engine is healthy, the currents in the Harbor and East River through Hell Gate are bad on good days. By the time you go you will have in hand a copy of the Eldridge Tide and Pilot Book for the Harbor. Get one now and look at it. Now consider making the transit on a short daylight, windy day with possible ice chunks in the water. That should be enough reason to postpone the trip until Spring.
I guess you know something about LIS. It is a great cruising ground for day trips to two week cruises. Plenty of harbors and facilities and places to see all the way to Boston.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:09   #29
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

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Originally Posted by svenskflicka View Post
Thank you for the advice. The run from AC to Ambrose is definitely the primary concern. Barnegat doesn't seem to be a great inlet in case things aren't going well....

Thats an understatement. Im another one whos done this trip numerous times, and I agree its a bad idea in a new-to-you boat, particularly if youve not done the run before.

Id been in and out Barnegat inlet countless times on various boats over the years when I took a chance to run in when the weather changed. Wind against tide created standing waves that almost swallowed a 40 12 ton boat. Bad decision.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:25   #30
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Re: Chester, PA to Long Island Sound - Winter

I grew up on Long Beach Island, north of Atlantic City, NJ. I acquired a deep respect for the NJ inlets - tricky in summer, worse in winter with all the wind and storms. Also, many if not all marinas close or drastically reduce services in the winter. Repairs and fuel could be scarce.

Sailing the NJ Coast in winter needs some prep: on-board heat source to stay dry and get dry if you're drenched by a wave, storm or MOB; up-to-date charts for emergency shelter; extra crew and a careful weather eye for the frequent wind and storms. One trick we used when negotiating an inlet in winter is to get on the radio and see if any of the local fisherman were going in or out of a particular inlet. If so, stand off and watch where they go. The shoaling in many of these inlets can change overnight and the fishermen will know about it. Some of the inlets are unsafe for smaller boats at certain tides due to high, steep waves.

Ice on the decks, rigging and sails is dangerous in several ways.

Bringing a boat from Chester to Cape May requires careful attention to the wind and tides in upper Delaware Bay, not just to save time, but to avoid the steep seas that can develop when the Delaware River encounters a strong southerly or northerly breeze. These seas can and have sunk small boats.

When we take our Cape Dory 31 from Cape May to NY Harbor, we do it over two days. We stop at Atlantic City and lay over, then leave early and go up and in behind Sandy Hook for shelter. From there your can anchor and wait to time the tides up the East River. In winter, with less daylight, you may want to put in at Manasquan to avoid night running.

I suggest trucking a new boat that you are unfamiliar with. It's not a long haul. Later, when the boat is ready and you're more comfortable with her, would be a better time to try winter sailing, which can have its pleasures in nice weather.

Best of luck with the new boat.

Terry
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