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Old 20-03-2016, 17:39   #16
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pirate Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

My RN Boat Charts go down to 062 S.. and that far enough S for me thanks..
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Old 20-03-2016, 18:04   #17
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

I think 60 or 62 is the limit for all general BA and Int charts except for 'the world' and some of the gnomonic charts.

You have some of the original lifeboat charts..... ? Lucky bugger...they are beautiful things.
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Old 21-03-2016, 06:15   #18
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
They do exist...

However I can't see either sense or logic in using a chart upside down... for starters east would be west...quite counterintuitive... you would need to get your brain rewired....

If you do do it why only in high southern lats, why not do it all the time.

I think it may have been a 'look at me' issue. Its not even as if the closest land is to the south...you have to get below 60* for that to start happening.

EDIT 2nd attempt at map...
I reckon your map is the key to why he was comfortable with South up. He was accustomed to having the cold bit at the top.
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Old 21-03-2016, 06:36   #19
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pirate Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
I think 60 or 62 is the limit for all general BA and Int charts except for 'the world' and some of the gnomonic charts.

You have some of the original lifeboat charts..... ? Lucky bugger...they are beautiful things.
The full set for the World including Tables of Sunrise & Sunset issued by the Hydrographer of the Navy.
My Passage Planning treasures...
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Old 21-03-2016, 08:33   #20
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

I happen to be enjoying "The Long Way" presently and see no upside down chart diagrams by Moitessier. They are all North up orientated. Maybe the original editions had the diagrams inverted. Image from latest edition attached. I hope.
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Old 22-03-2016, 03:20   #21
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

Nuzhat al-mushtāq fi'khtirāq al-āfāq
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Old 22-03-2016, 06:10   #22
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

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I happen to be enjoying "The Long Way" presently and see no upside down chart diagrams by Moitessier. They are all North up orientated. Maybe the original editions had the diagrams inverted.
I have two copies of the Moitessier book. One is the 1986 paperback in French, La longue route, published by Arthaud. The other is an epub in English.


The OP's quote occurs on p. 220 of my English epub and p. 387 of my French paperback.


The quote is in a section on 'Pacific Knockdowns' [Knock-down du Pacifique].


The citation annotates a diagram that, in the French version, looks to me as if hand-drawn and with hand-lettering by Moitessier. And that hand-drawn diagram makes sense only if S is at the top and N at the bottom.


The diagram in the English version is hand-drawn, but M's hand-lettering has been erased and replaced with printed lettering. And the diagram has been rotated 45 degrees clockwise.


The English text has not been adjusted for that rotation! I don't have a chance to scan my French paperback until tomorrow. But here's the English version (the text 'NB. In the high southern latitudes ...' looks like an accurate translation of the French original. But it does not take into account the rotation that has been made to the diagram):
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Old 22-03-2016, 10:48   #23
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

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Originally Posted by Alan Mighty View Post
I have two copies of the Moitessier book. One is the 1986 paperback in French, La longue route, published by Arthaud. The other is an epub in English.


The OP's quote occurs on p. 220 of my English epub and p. 387 of my French paperback.


The quote is in a section on 'Pacific Knockdowns' [Knock-down du Pacifique].


The citation annotates a diagram that, in the French version, looks to me as if hand-drawn and with hand-lettering by Moitessier. And that hand-drawn diagram makes sense only if S is at the top and N at the bottom.


The diagram in the English version is hand-drawn, but M's hand-lettering has been erased and replaced with printed lettering. And the diagram has been rotated 45 degrees clockwise.


The English text has not been adjusted for that rotation! I don't have a chance to scan my French paperback until tomorrow. But here's the English version (the text 'NB. In the high southern latitudes ...' looks like an accurate translation of the French original. But it does not take into account the rotation that has been made to the diagram):

Thank you for clearing up my total confusion! I`m fairly certain I`ll never sail the high latitudes but it`s nice to know that it appears majority rules on this issue! I`ll be checking out page 220.
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Old 22-03-2016, 10:52   #24
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

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Nuzhat al-mushtāq fi'khtirāq al-āfāq

Mark, I wish I could read this chart. Even with my readers on I can make out nothing. Which land mass am I looking at?
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Old 22-03-2016, 11:47   #25
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

I thought it was usual to align the map with direction of travel. If I'm heading south, I want South to be the forward edge of the map. Whether that is top or bottom or left or right depends upon where I am standing or sitting.
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Old 22-03-2016, 12:15   #26
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

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I thought it was usual to align the map with direction of travel. If I'm heading south, I want South to be the forward edge of the map. Whether that is top or bottom or left or right depends upon where I am standing or sitting.

Good point, Jdege. As I plot my way along my charts with GPS I probably do exactly that and don`t even realize it. Having grown up on the Great Lakes, specifically Michigan, it`s pretty much second nature. Now that I think about it, I do orient the charts to my direction of travel. Doh!...
So whether the chart is South up or North up it doesn`t really matter in that case. I`m glad we`ve had this conversation.
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Old 22-03-2016, 15:46   #27
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

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Mark, I wish I could read this chart. Even with my readers on I can make out nothing. Which land mass am I looking at?
The known world in the 1100's - oriented South up.

That large blue mass on the right is the Mediterranean. Above it is Africa, below it is Europe. To the left is Asia. The Horn of Africa is clearly identifiable , at the top left of the Mediterranean. The further you go from the Middle East, the less accurate it all becomes.
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Old 22-03-2016, 16:41   #28
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

Still waiting for an explanation for why South Up makes sense...

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Old 22-03-2016, 16:42   #29
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

Thank you StuM.
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Old 22-03-2016, 23:18   #30
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Re: Chart orientation "in high southern latitudes"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mighty View Post
I have two copies of the Moitessier book. One is the 1986 paperback in French, La longue route, published by Arthaud. The other is an epub in English.


The OP's quote occurs on p. 220 of my English epub and p. 387 of my French paperback.


The quote is in a section on 'Pacific Knockdowns' [Knock-down du Pacifique].


The citation annotates a diagram that, in the French version, looks to me as if hand-drawn and with hand-lettering by Moitessier. And that hand-drawn diagram makes sense only if S is at the top and N at the bottom.


The diagram in the English version is hand-drawn, but M's hand-lettering has been erased and replaced with printed lettering. And the diagram has been rotated 45 degrees clockwise.


The English text has not been adjusted for that rotation! I don't have a chance to scan my French paperback until tomorrow. But here's the English version (the text 'NB. In the high southern latitudes ...' looks like an accurate translation of the French original. But it does not take into account the rotation that has been made to the diagram):
Here is the diagram from the original French edition.

AMHA, what the caption means is that if you want to apply this diagram (Moitessier calls it a "carte" ("map / chart")) to the southern latitudes, you have to view it with the South up (then East is left...)
It says nothing about MARINE charts...
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