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Old 21-05-2015, 15:57   #16
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Charlie's Charts

I have a suggestion to all forum members. Go buy yourself a new Charlie's Charts for the area you cruise. Read the intro yourself and then see what you think. You will be getting an excellent cruising guide, supporting fellow sailors, and keeping a long standing tradition (Charlie's Charts were published by Charles and Margo Wood beginning in 1982) alive and well. And while you are at www.charliescharts.com look at the other useful things they have for cruisers too.

By the way, my only connection is that I use these guides and have come to know Holly Scott through numerous classes she taught.

S/V B'Shert
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Old 21-05-2015, 15:59   #17
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Re: Charlie's Charts

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Originally Posted by FastCruiser View Post
No, you are wrong Skip, this is a question of giving the chart book away, and not copies of the chart book.. read it again. its the way its written that leads you to believe its the chart book.
we all know its not proper to make copies, its the fact that its referring to the chart book itself..And furthermore, it doesn't say to give them yours but instead give them the web address and let them buy their own.
Not the way I parse the sentence. Your quote "However, copying these guides and selling or giving them away is BAD KARMA"

I read that as saying "Copying these guides and selling or giving them away"; them being a pronoun indicating the copies, not the guides, meaning you can't give away the copies.
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Old 21-05-2015, 16:21   #18
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Re: Charlie's Charts

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Not the way I parse the sentence. Your quote "However, copying these guides and selling or giving them away is BAD KARMA"

I read that as saying "Copying these guides and selling or giving them away"; them being a pronoun indicating the copies, not the guides, meaning you can't give away the copies.
To me the "Them" refers plural, meaning guides and copies , guides being one and copies being two, you cant give away Guides and Copies
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Old 21-05-2015, 16:46   #19
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Re: Charlie's Charts

If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out. Don't like the charts? Throw em away. Don't like the company? Don't buy anything from them. I'm having difficulty seeing the confusion here. There are scads of businesses I won't deal with under any circumstances. J.P. Whitney, for example, could offer me a free product from every page in their catalog and I'd tell them to stuff it. So? Do I expect other people to stop buying from them? Nope.

And you'll lose your battle to boycott Charlie's Charts.

Vote with your feet, by all means, but don't expect a huge following because of it.
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Old 25-05-2015, 06:02   #20
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Re: Charlie's Charts

Thanks for all the support from our Charlie's Charts fans! I'm on a plane and they just shut the doors, but look for a reply when I get home.
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Old 25-05-2015, 06:28   #21
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Re: Charlie's Charts

Oh for pete's sake, this is clearly a cutesy way of asking you not to steal their work. Anyone who gets bent out of shape over the Karma reference needs to take a deep breath, count to ten, and have another beer . Chill man.

The sentence could have been written better, but its meaning is clear:
"However, copying these guides and selling or giving them away is BAD KARMA." The "or" clearly relates to "copying these guides."

If you own a purchased copy of the guide you can sell it or give it away. What you can't do is make additional copies to give or sell (although you can make copies for your own personal use). That's the meaning of COPYright -- it gives the owners the exclusive right to make copies (within the bounds of Fair Use/Fair Dealing).
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Old 25-05-2015, 06:34   #22
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Re: Charlie's Charts

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Originally Posted by FastCruiser View Post
To me the "Them" refers plural, meaning guides and copies , guides being one and copies being two, you cant give away Guides and Copies
I agree with those that interpret the sentence as an admonishment not to sell or give away copies of their material. I don't think anywhere it is illegal (or bad karma) to resell used original of a copyrighted work. Likewise giving it away is ok too. IMO you have misinterpreted their intended message.

The sad fact is that in today's world there is an entire generation of folks that think it is wrong to charge money for intellectual ideas or compilations of data or other material. Their logic is that they should only pay the cost of reproduction and pay nothing for the intellectual material itself. If reproducing the material costs nothing then they believe they should pay nothing. In their weird world they believe it is immoral to have to pay anything to the developer, author or other persons who worked to compile the material. I think this message is directed at these misguided souls and not at the cruiser who just wants someone else to use a good guide rather than send it to a landfill. I'm guessing the people at Charlie's Charts appreciate cruisers giving away their old books. That may create a new customer for them. Putting it in the landfill helps no one.
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Old 25-05-2015, 06:53   #23
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Re: Charlie's Charts

What sort of karma do you bring on yourself by throwing in the dumpster something that is of great value to others?
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Old 27-05-2015, 08:15   #24
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Re: Charlie's Charts

Hello Again! I was leading a flotilla charter when this was going on and a customer let me know you folks were having this discussion. Thank you so much for the attention! Allow me to clarify a few things, if you will….

Charlie's Charts are a series of seven cruising guides covering the coasts of North America from Alaska to Costa Rica as well as Hawaii and Polynesia. While there are sketches of coves, harbors, bays etc, there are no official Government charts. Lots of written info about all those places which we do our best to keep up to date.

We are cruisers, just like you - although I don't keep up with this site. I know my stuff when it comes to charts, navigation, anchorages etc. but am new to publishing and the world of making a book. (Big learning curve!) We have been actually printing the books ourselves - in my garage (!) up till now, but are just about to hand it all over to a publishing company so I can have a life and spend more time on updates. And cruising!

The discussion on Karma makes more sense if you read the entire section rather than just a few sentences. For your enjoyment, I will copy it here:

"A WORD OR TWO ABOUT KARMA

Sailors have always been a superstitious lot, and for good reason. How often have we all wondered what we did to deserve the bad things that happen to us as we are sailing around ‘out there’? “Just get me out of this storm in one piece and I’ll never throw plastic overboard again!” You know what we’re talking about…

So be nice to everybody and everything; other cruisers, the local folks, the wildlife with whom you share the land and seas, our planet and especially your boat. And remember that we print these cruising guides for you so you can cruise with some local knowledge, like having a friend onboard. You will want to share your experiences with other cruisers and mark up your guide with changes and suggestions from cruisers who have been there. Perfect!

However, copying these guides and giving them or selling them is BAD KARMA. You don’t need any BAD KARMA, you need good karma. We will be happy to mail a brand new copy anywhere in the world, so just pass along our web information and build up some more good karma for yourself and others. And help us keep the presses rolling here at home."


So there you are. If you are still wondering what it all means, it means that we would appreciate it if you would not make copies of our stuff and sell it or give it to other folks. Help a fellow sailor in need - good karma. Rip off fellow cruisers by limiting their sales - bad karma.

What are you "allowed" to do? Anything you can live with.

Now shut off your computer and get outside and go sailing. I'll see you out there!
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