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Old 16-08-2015, 05:55   #16
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

A hook in the water does not a trawler make.
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Old 16-08-2015, 06:08   #17
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

A while back, I was aboard a mono going from Mallorca to Ibiza. I was hitching a ride to pick up a friend and sail his boat back with him. Once out of Harbour the autopilot was set. One of the couple went to lie down and the other went into the galley and started cooking. It seems they did the trip regularly and this was normal for them.

I didnt leave the cockpit all the trip even when invited for something to eat in the cabin... the seaways were quite busy.

As they say in Lancashire England, "Nowt as queer as folk".
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Old 16-08-2015, 06:27   #18
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

This is one of our scariest scenarios.


When we're trolling, we have a virtual length of about 100' and a virtual beam of about 150' (line spread), but more critically we're moving at about 2.5 kts on one engine with trolling valves engaged...


Which in turn means I can't turn easily (line spread), I can't steer very well (one tiny rudder working, offset from the keel), and I can't change speeds (trolling valve prohibits throttle changes).


Early this year we were "missed" by about 20' -- bozo I believe on autopilot at about 20 kts and apparently not even keeping a watch -- and there seemed to be nothing I could do to attract his attention. Radio, horns, hailer, no joy... partly because of his engine noise probably, partly because our horns/hailer wasn't facing him.


I should have used a flare right at him maybe, but didn't think of that fast enough because we were scrambling to prepare for collision.


His passenger waved as they went by. As if nothing had happened. And then they did the same thing to the next boat trolling nearby.


I was the give way vessel, but I wasn't able to figure out how to give way. I couldn't turn fast enough -- in either direction -- to get out of his path.


-Chris
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Old 16-08-2015, 06:38   #19
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

Just to clear the air, a trawler uses nets and are considered RAM while their nets are in the water, a troller uses hooks and lines, while not considered RAM under the rules, they are definitely restricted in their ability to maneuver when engaged in fishing, and should be given a wide berth if possible.
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Old 16-08-2015, 06:47   #20
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
Small pilothouse trawler, and no, they were transiting at about 10 knots. Given the time of day and course, I assume they were headed back to port in Newport.
assuming you were under sail, a fishing vessel would only have right of way if dragging nets like a shrimper for example. Have a lure in the water does not qualify.
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Old 16-08-2015, 08:29   #21
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
assuming you were under sail, a fishing vessel would only have right of way if dragging nets like a shrimper for example. Have a lure in the water does not qualify.
In any event, if the fishing boat felt it was stand on for a less than obvious reason, it should have responded with that reason, not "I'm on autopilot."
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Old 16-08-2015, 08:49   #22
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

Having ridden a motorcycle for years, I was able to stay alive by maintaining the position that I never, ever had the right of way, and that I was invisible. I have carried this philosophy thru while on the water, and so far so good.
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Old 16-08-2015, 09:01   #23
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

This is not a new problem, I had it occur a good 25 years ago. I was transiting Long Island Sound in deep water with no nav markers in the immedient vicinity. It was daylight and two of us were in the cockpit when we hear a horn behind us? A large power boat was bearing down on us with the "capt.?" Waving his arms. We maintained course, he the got on his bullhorn screaming that he was on AP and we needed to get out of his way! We continued to hold our course and speed, while he screamed and veered off, yelling through his bullhorn that he was going to report us to the Coast Guard. Needless to say we never heard from them. Interestingly the guy we had at the helm was an active duty Coast Guardsman. He took down the reg. number.
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Old 16-08-2015, 09:01   #24
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

In my part of the world (East Med), fishing vessels hate cruiser boats (sail or motor) They do everything possible to scare/ discomfort/ ... you name it
So it is not the autopilots but the person behind the helm - the so called "Captain".
So be patient with them, keep a good distance away from them and think before you start cursing them because when you will meet again in the harbor, these people (fishermen) tend not to have manners at all! Happy Sailing
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Old 16-08-2015, 09:12   #25
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

Fishing vessel engaged in fishing has the right of way. At night "white over white fishing tonight" us stay away. Where it is written in the regs that autopilot engagement gives you the right of way. You guys are dangerous to the rest of us that don't mind hitting the +10 or -10 deg to give the guy that has similar misconceptions room to go and then come back to my original heading.
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Old 16-08-2015, 09:13   #26
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

I've had the same experience, same place. A few of the fishermen there are surly and aggressive, angry they have to share "their" water with us "yachties". Filing a complaint with the coastguard is about the only thing you can do.... I just give them lots of room, and shrug. The coasties are quite clear that if required, the stand on vessel must take action to avoid a collision, including yielding right of way if necessary. Marine accidents are not the same as cars. Responsibilities for the accident are assigned by percent of fault, as determined by the judge. If you don't take every possible action to avoid the collision, you can, in theory, wind up being totally at fault.

As an aside, I live close enough to the Port to hear the freighters blowing their horns rapidly five times, the signal for danger. Happens every day, more on the weekends. The freighters have total right of way going into and out of the port, even over sailboats. I've watched both power and sail boats get way too dangerously close to them. Be safe, give them wide berth.

Safe passage, Dave
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Old 16-08-2015, 09:19   #27
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

many times in that particular part of smugglers alley i have encountered ottopile it cruisers speeding .. motor cruisers..without any watch , dead dark at night, running south presumably for a fishing tourney. noit so cool, as ye donot see em , running dark, until aafter the sound of the revving engines. oops that wwas 20 ft and closing. good thing we were 20 ft farther away than deadhit. was tooc lose in a hu8ge ocean. beware of dark flying things called boats. no, ais willnot help ye with quiet pangas nor with running sportsfishers en route to tourneys. oops keep good watch. you are the give way and stand on vessel--you do all in your control to prevent collision.
be smart--do NOT insist on alleged right of way,, as there is no such thing, nor such thing as right and wrong in a collision, as both are at fault.
you can either wake up dead and or drowning or you can save your boat and your life and be aware of potential situations and keep adequate watch.
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Old 16-08-2015, 09:32   #28
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

A bit over 10-years ago, we were sailing back to San Diego from Catalina Island on a sunny clear day with unlimited visibility. We were approximately 8-10 miles off shore and noticed a moderate size (~40-45 foot) power boat traveling at planing speed apparently out of Oceanside Harbor heading in the direction of San Clemente Island. Watching the boat for several minutes, it became apparent if his course was not altered we would be in danger of colliding. The boat was still far enough off when using my binoculars I could not determine if there was anyone in the flying bridge and couldn't make out if there might be someone at the lower helm station. I tried raising the boat on the VHF to no avail. As the boat got closer, without any change in course, I became convinced it was on autopilot and either the operator was disabled or a complete blockhead. Within a quarter of a mile, I sounded my hand held air horn and witnessed a flurry of activity aboard what previously had looked like a ghost ship. At least four heads popped up out of the cabin, one making his way to the fly bridge and finally altering course. I can only surmise the four of them were down below enjoying a game of cards before their planned fishing outing off San Clemente Island.
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Old 16-08-2015, 09:32   #29
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

Zigzag you get a big AMEN from me. By the way I misstated it is red over white fishing tonight.
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Old 16-08-2015, 10:02   #30
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Re: Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel!

Perhaps the problem is that many boaters do not know the light system and may not know that trawlers while actively involved in trawling have the right of way. Of course many people have no appreciation for how long it takes to stop or alter course with a large vessel. That, however, is not an excuse! If your going to play with the big kids, you have to know the rules! Keep in mind larger ships may take miles to stop or turn sharply.
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