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Old 12-02-2015, 18:02   #331
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
Wow! I actually, finally, got to the end of this incredibly endless thread. I think it took about 90 minutes and I skipped some stuff. Do any of us actually have real lives with time to perhaps go sailing?

I haven't seen even one poster who has changed their opinion from where the started, and there have been tons of frequent posts from the same likely suspects. It's a bit like my older brother who constantly pesters me about politics because he thinks I will go over to his side if he just keeps at the over and over again. I told him finally to just stuff it on the politics so we could find brotherly love again. Guess what? I haven't heard from him since!

Let's make nice and go have a beer. And for the record, the Kiwis from NZed have the best sense of humor and IMHO the best sense about how to go sailing with the least nonsense. And they like to drink copious amounts of beer.

I'm going to drink a beer now and I will never, ever, read any more of the posts on this thread - not that any of you care. Just saying....
Irony. A rant about other people's rants.
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Old 12-02-2015, 18:28   #332
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Hebron?
Good eye - yes, it is, amazing place... Have you been there?

The view from the boat...


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Old 12-02-2015, 23:29   #333
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

Seems the advocates of eliminating paper are ignoring that some sailors are interested in escaping technology, if only briefly.

I enjoy learning and practicing techniques using compass, charts, divider, and even sextant of earlier times simply out of curiosity.




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Old 13-02-2015, 01:15   #334
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

Are paper charts a dinosaur?
Seems not..
Ramblers find their way back to maps as digital devices let them down - Telegraph
I rest my case..
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Old 13-02-2015, 01:37   #335
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Are paper charts a dinosaur?
Seems not..
Ramblers find their way back to maps as digital devices let them down - Telegraph
I rest my case..
Well said, sir!

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Old 13-02-2015, 08:41   #336
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

Before I describe the difference between the two, let me point out that neither is good if they are not used correctly. I've seen users of both digital and paper charts become lazy and lose situational awareness. The other thing that needs to be said is that this is not an either/or solution. It is best to use both since each has advantages.

While many have correctly pointed out that a chart plotter will eventually fail, the argument for paper charts is, to me, more about situational awareness. Paper charts foster this whereas electronic means tend to discourage it. This in not to say that everyone who uses chart plotters is lazy and unaware of their situation. The difference is that paper charts force one to be aware. Chart plotters on the other hand discourage situational awareness and require the user to actively force themselves to stay abreast of the situation. I have seen far too many people just follow the arrow and not orient themselves to where they are. This is why navigators on large ships will plot on paper and then convert their plots to the plotter.

It is in many ways akin to the difference between a manual and an automatic gearbox. With an automatic, you just put the gear selector in D (for dummy!) and step on the gas. With a manual, you have to actively select the gear. It forces one, even if just subconsciously, to think about the correct gear, car and engine speed, etc. This is one reason why drivers of manuals are generally better drivers.

I have extensively used chart plotters and to a slightly lesser extent used paper charts only. To me, the best solution is to use paper charts as a primary method and electronic devices as a secondary method.
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Old 13-02-2015, 09:02   #337
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

To me, it' like asking, "With communications devices making it so easy to communicate with someone electronically, is there ever any reason to go actually talk to them face to face?"



(And, I do expect the answers to vary on this question).
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Old 13-02-2015, 10:19   #338
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Irony. A rant about other people's rants.
Good call!
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Old 13-02-2015, 11:10   #339
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Irony. A rant about other people's rants.

well said.
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Old 14-02-2015, 11:01   #340
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

To anyone still monitoring this interesting thread, I found this interesting tidbit at gCaptain.com. gCaptain is a good read just for stories like this.

Recognizing Deck Officer Health Issues Such as Trackline Attachment Syndrome - gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News

Anyone ever hear about "Trackline attachment syndrome"? I have seen it in recreational boats but just never had a name for it.
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Old 14-02-2015, 13:34   #341
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
To me, it' like asking, "With communications devices making it so easy to communicate with someone electronically, is there ever any reason to go actually talk to them face to face?"



(And, I do expect the answers to vary on this question).
So just as I prefer to use a combo of devices and old school for navigating, I use both for personal communication. There may be times that a sext is fun, but I don't think you can beat a little physical contact to really communicate ...

drives me crazy to see people at a table ignoring each other and sending texts, tweets, selfies etc. what a slap in the face to a date or friend. I learned the value of texts for asking questions at work, coordinating carpool rides, staying connected to my daughter, pinging friends to see if they want to meet up, seeing if someone is free to talk, but jeez posting a pic of your dinner to facebook
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Old 14-02-2015, 17:24   #342
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
To anyone still monitoring this interesting thread, I found this interesting tidbit at gCaptain.com. gCaptain is a good read just for stories like this.

Recognizing Deck Officer Health Issues Such as Trackline Attachment Syndrome - gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News

Anyone ever hear about "Trackline attachment syndrome"? I have seen it in recreational boats but just never had a name for it.
I saw the same article. It's a humor piece pointing up the problem of folks over-focusing on electronics rather than looking out the window occasionally to confirm what is being shown on the screen. While the issue is real, that name and the others in the article were made up for humorous effect.

If you want a disturbing read in a similar vein read: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...jd7MIzplQvUl1g

Guy did a study for his MS degree using real life airline pilots that showed a correlation between cockpit automation and degradation of manual piloting skills so bad that on average, not only weren't they meeting FAA requirements for Air Transport Pilots, they were barely meeting the requirements for an Instrument Flight Rules certification, in some cases the group wasn't even meeting that requirement. These are folks with decades of experience, careers on the line, and major global airlines backing them up. Flightdeck automation is necessary to maintain the efficiency airlines need to remain competitive but overuse is eroding the skills needed when it fails.

An example of this would be Air France Flight 447 .

Makes you wonder about the folks here, how they would fare if GPS, their chartplotter or both went down.
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Old 14-02-2015, 17:50   #343
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

I use electronic and paper charts at the same time. Paper charts provide more detail in a larger scale.


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Old 15-02-2015, 10:41   #344
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

[
Makes you wonder about the folks here, how they would fare if GPS, their chartplotter or both went down.[/QUOTE]

I believe that is called lost.
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Old 15-02-2015, 11:29   #345
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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I believe that is called lost.
Well there's lost and then there is LOST.

The first has a vague idea of where they're at, a glimmer of what direction the nearest appropriate safe harbor is and maybe a bit of backup equipment they used to know how to use.

Then there's the folks that have no idea where they might be, no backup charts, don't have any backup equipment and wouldn't have any clue how to use it if they did because they have never done manual navigation.
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