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Old 11-02-2015, 22:23   #316
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Adelie, I do not care a whit what the "group consensus" about the dinosaur nature of paper charts might be, and I do not think that a survey would reveal very much of interest. Only a very small fraction of CF members actually do much voyaging beyond familiar waters, and these are the folks to whom it really matters what sort of chart is used. And I am pretty sure none of them care about what "the group" thinks; perhaps this is the "vocal minority" that you mention. They are the ones to whom it really matters, and I would bet a decent sum that nearly all of them use some combination of paper and e-charts.
Nor do I care what the "group consensus" is, in my line of work that is pretty much a prerequisite. Nor do I think that very many CFers do either. I did not use the term consensus to mean 'group think' or that every one got together and convinced themselves of a certain belief. I used the term in the sense of near unanimous agreement, regardless of whether people came to the same conclusion independently or by outside coercion or argument.

There are two big ways to interpret the OP's question:
Are paper charts a dinosaur meaning pointless to buy and have and carry?
Or are paper charts on their way out like the dinosaurs?

Regarding the first interpretation I believe paper charts are necessary as a backup and for planning purposes, a point I think I have previously made.

My most recent response above is addressed to the second interpretation of the question: are they on their way out. Given current printing technology one should always be able to print maps if the underlying data remains in a form that is printable. By printable I don't mean the file type, I mean that all the available data for an area has been appropriately culled and selected for appropriateness to that size and scale of chart. Currently this is being done by humans when they make raster charts. The zoom effect leading to the loss of important features on vector charts as you zoom out shows that this is a very hard function to automate. Perhaps in the future it will get better. In the mean time if there is not enough demand for paper charts, there will not be enough demand for the raster files with intelligent human judgement about what to include on them. Without enough demand the relevant agencies will not spend the money to have actual people do these things and eventually all that will be available to print is the vector charts that can be seen in some of the previous posts. This is where the consensus comes in, if there is a consensus (ie vast super majority) that paper/raster charts are not needed then there won't be enough demand in the long run to keep creating them and update existing ones. In that case they will be on their way out.
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Old 11-02-2015, 22:41   #317
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

I think there will always be demand for paper, not as much as before, but still a demand.
There are no plans to make ECDIS compulsary for ships under 3000GRT.... however the owners of those ships can't just say ' stuff ECDIS... we will just use openCPN'.
They either have to get proper ECDIS or stick with paper. Many small ships will get ECDIS as a voluntary fit but if they are in a limited trade it is cheaper for them to have paper as a backup. If they are in world-wide trade it would probably pay them to go dual ECDIS/no paper or just stick with paper.
Printing on demand makes a lot of sense... beats having every class A chart agent holding every chart ( including ones that sell once in a decade) and employing some poor bugger to keep them all corrected. Its just simple inventory control.
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Old 11-02-2015, 23:21   #318
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

So far, in the poll, there's only one poor guy who doesn't carry paper.
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Old 12-02-2015, 03:17   #319
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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So far, in the poll, there's only one poor guy who doesn't carry paper.
Is the aim of your poll to disparage those who answer ?
I'm not a poor boy, I am a blue sailor that cannot afford the hundreds of paper charts I would need to sail, not to mention keeping them up to date.
I had imagined anyone who had some sense would easily understand that, but I guess I was too optimistic...
I should never have answered your f... poll
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Old 12-02-2015, 03:23   #320
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

Bad hair day ?
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:17   #321
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Vaguely amusing sarcasm that did nothing to advance the discussion.


Adelie
Not sarcasm.

Perhaps English is not your first language?

My comment was totally relevant to the discussion and in fact, the only conclusion that can come from this discussion.
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:35   #322
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Depending upon where you happen to be sailing, that may not always be possible... ;-)


Hebron?
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:50   #323
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

I still keep paper charts for everywhere I sail. It's a lot easier to plan routes on them, rather than trying to do it on chartplotters, at least to me.
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Old 12-02-2015, 06:45   #324
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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I still keep paper charts for everywhere I sail. It's a lot easier to plan routes on them, rather than trying to do it on chartplotters, at least to me.

Sail further
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Old 12-02-2015, 15:18   #325
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Bad hair day ?
Sounds more like a sore spot.
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Old 12-02-2015, 15:32   #326
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post

Perhaps English is not your first language?
Still with the baiting I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
My comment was totally relevant to the discussion and in fact, the only conclusion that can come from this discussion.
The conclusion you came to is the only legitimate conclusion that can be drawn? My mistake. I will accede to your conclusions in all future interactions.


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Old 12-02-2015, 15:59   #327
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
I still keep paper charts for everywhere I sail. It's a lot easier to plan routes on them, rather than trying to do it on chartplotters, at least to me.
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Old 12-02-2015, 16:05   #328
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a conclusion today.
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Old 12-02-2015, 16:11   #329
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

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Hebron?
Beautiful, were is it a fjord some place?
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Old 12-02-2015, 17:57   #330
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Re: Are paper charts a dinosaur?

Wow! I actually, finally, got to the end of this incredibly endless thread. I think it took about 90 minutes and I skipped some stuff. Do any of us actually have real lives with time to perhaps go sailing?

I haven't seen even one poster who has changed their opinion from where the started, and there have been tons of frequent posts from the same likely suspects. It's a bit like my older brother who constantly pesters me about politics because he thinks I will go over to his side if he just keeps at the over and over again. I told him finally to just stuff it on the politics so we could find brotherly love again. Guess what? I haven't heard from him since!

Let's make nice and go have a beer. And for the record, the Kiwis from NZed have the best sense of humor and IMHO the best sense about how to go sailing with the least nonsense. And they like to drink copious amounts of beer.

I'm going to drink a beer now and I will never, ever, read any more of the posts on this thread - not that any of you care. Just saying....
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