Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-04-2019, 18:52   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,568
Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

A little past 7:00 this evening a 49 ft French Catamaran called Mayday, which I responded to in Georgetown Exuma. The captain claimed he didn't understand why he hit the reef because he was following the recommended route. I asked him if he was using Navionics charts and he said yes. This is the same recommended route that lead a lagoon onto the reef between Guana cay and Fowl cay about three or four years ago. I don't know if the Captain never updated his charts or if the erroneous route has reappeared on Navionics charts as I'm not a user of the product. I will contact some fellow cruisers that do use them in the morning and see if the route has reappeared.

Fortunately the boat hit the reef near high tide and was not a fixed keel cat and made it across the reef instead of being stranded on it and destroying the restoration efforts from the last grounding. The boat was taking on water in its starboard hull through the engine room (reportedly around the shaft)and had lost lost steering. They managed to get the flooding under control and a local salvage vessel responded with gasoline powered pumps so the vessel is no longer in immediate danger. It was well after dark before they got a couple of tow vessels on it and got it to a safe anchorage.

So Bottom line if any of you out there have Navionics charts that show a recommended route to enter Elizabeth Harbor in Georgetown Exuma that goes between Guana and Fowl Cays DON'T USE IT, it will put you on a reef.
__________________

Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2019, 19:35   #2
Sempre Avanti
 
IslandHopper's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Queensland, Australia.....
Posts: 1,598
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

This been the previous one i guess?

Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas
__________________

IslandHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2019, 19:42   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,397
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Anyone who relied on Navionics in the Bahamas
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
Anyone who relies on Navionics in the Bahamas should take care. Do a search I have been warning folks for over ten years on this forum.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2019, 23:14   #4
Sempre Avanti
 
IslandHopper's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Queensland, Australia.....
Posts: 1,598
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Even though there is a warning stating "Do Not Follow Suggested Route" It appears that the route has been removed from the app, interesting that the warning was put up 2 days after the first incident was posted here on the 13 Feb 2013......

If the below chart was presented to me there is no way I would have even considered going through there, I would be interested in what version they were using…….

https://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@13&key=qllnCfgamM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.JPG
Views:	1853
Size:	116.6 KB
ID:	190573   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.JPG
Views:	1785
Size:	114.4 KB
ID:	190574  

Click image for larger version

Name:	3.JPG
Views:	1014
Size:	61.4 KB
ID:	190575   Click image for larger version

Name:	4.JPG
Views:	985
Size:	79.3 KB
ID:	190576  

IslandHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 01:19   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Becalmed in the Med
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 953
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

How is it that they are so wrong in a popular area? After-all it's not the South Pacific where the paper charts from the 1800s. Surely they take a look at whatever official paper charts are put out by the country and question and double check to make sure they aren't way off? (applies to both Navionics/Garmin, and the boat owner)
mikedefieslife is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 01:56   #6
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 24,126
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
How is it that they are so wrong in a popular area? After-all it's not the South Pacific where the paper charts from the 1800s. Surely they take a look at whatever official paper charts are put out by the country and question and double check to make sure they aren't way off? (applies to both Navionics/Garmin, and the boat owner)

It is a matter of surveys. The charts themselves are based on surveys and don't get updated much on an ad hoc basis, especially if the issue is something in shallow water which doesn't affect ships. So even errors in charts decades old often persist.



Very new crowd-sourcing systems like "Community Edits" and "Sonar Charts" are designed to overcome this problem and propagate local knowledge more efficiently.



But in general, it is not proper navigation or seamanship just to follow a chart mindlessly. Charts are not infallible, not by a long shot, and they are especially fallible in (a) poor countries where surveys are rarely done (some charts are based on surveys centuries old!); and (b) in areas where the bottom changes a lot (like places in hurricane zones -- duh).


Dollars to doughnuts the guy in the OP did not even have up to date charts on board. Did he study pilot books, refer to other cartography sources? Keep someone on watch on the bows when passing through the coral reef?
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-ętre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 01:58   #7
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 3,349
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

The Explorer Charts for comparison ....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Captura de pantalla 2019-04-22 a las 10.53.31.jpg
Views:	1639
Size:	404.1 KB
ID:	190583  
bcn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 02:46   #8
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 14,361
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Not familiar with the area, but NONE of those charts would encourage me to attempt to pass between those cays. Only an observer in the rigging and good lighting would suffice.

There may well be a good passage there, but none of those charts show such.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II now lying Towlers Cove, in Broken Bay NSW for a while
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 03:00   #9
Sempre Avanti
 
IslandHopper's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Queensland, Australia.....
Posts: 1,598
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Not familiar with the area, but NONE of those charts would encourage me to attempt to pass between those cays. Only an observer in the rigging and good lighting would suffice.

There may well be a good passage there, but none of those charts show such.

Jim
The Navionics chart certainly looks a lot different to when the Feb 2013 incident occurred...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Guana and Fowl Cay Bahamas_Navionics.jpg
Views:	1227
Size:	194.6 KB
ID:	190584  
IslandHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 03:22   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
maxingout's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cruising
Boat: Privilege 39 Catamaran, Exit Only
Posts: 2,716
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Wow. I started using Navionics on my phone last week. It is great when it works, but nothing works as well as someone up in the first set of spreaders.
__________________
Dave -Sailing Vessel Exit Only
http://maxingout.com
http://PositiveThinkingSailor.com
maxingout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 03:58   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,856
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Not familiar with the area, but NONE of those charts would encourage me to attempt to pass between those cays. Only an observer in the rigging and good lighting would suffice.

There may well be a good passage there, but none of those charts show such.

Jim


Once again, this demonstrates that one needs and eyeball on the course in these waters.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 04:54   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Becalmed in the Med
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 953
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
The Navionics chart certainly looks a lot different to when the Feb 2013 incident occurred...
This is zoomed out though. The ones further up in the post seem to have depths matching the Explorer chart. Seems there's a few 0.5m soundings, but most above 1m and bearing in mind the chart datum is usually from the lowest tide levels, it shouldn't be too bad for a shallow draft multihull. Saying that, I wouldn't fancy it without someone up at the bow or higher.

Interestingly people have been mentioning the 'Navionics route' surely no-one was relying on auto routing through what looks to be a tricky area?
mikedefieslife is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 04:56   #13
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 4,369
Images: 6
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

I have to say that I would not call this a case of being a "victim" of Navionics. Rather a victim of relying too heavily on their electronic charts, and not keeping their eyeballs peeled well enough. Though, of course, Navionics needs to correct errors when they are made aware of them.
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 05:45   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Becalmed in the Med
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 953
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
I have to say that I would not call this a case of being a "victim" of Navionics. Rather a victim of relying too heavily on their electronic charts, and not keeping their eyeballs peeled well enough. Though, of course, Navionics needs to correct errors when they are made aware of them.
Shouldn't it read ..Rather a victim of relying too heavily on their charts, and not keeping their eyeballs peeled well enough.

I don't think it matters much if they are electronic or not.
mikedefieslife is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2019, 06:16   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 8,377
Re: Another Navionics Victim in Georgetown

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
I have to say that I would not call this a case of being a "victim" of Navionics. Rather a victim of relying too heavily on their outdated electronic charts, and not keeping their eyeballs peeled well enough. Though, of course, Navionics needs to correct errors when they are made aware of them.

FIFY


It would appear that Navionics removed the "suggested route", added numerous obstruction symbols and a warning note more than six years ago.
__________________

StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
georgetown, navionics

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oregon Inlet - Waterspout Victim? WestCoastRix Health, Safety & Related Gear 6 20-07-2017 21:41
Have You Ever Been a Victim of Boat Crime ? stevensuf Health, Safety & Related Gear 55 03-09-2012 22:52
Danish Pirate Victim Rescue Attempt Fails SvenG Cruising News & Events 13 11-03-2011 08:12
Tsunami Victim's Boat for Sale TaoJones Monohull Sailboats 10 09-10-2009 13:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.