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Old 05-04-2016, 21:26   #226
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Re: Ancient navigation

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Wise. No part arguing with the inexhaustible supply of hot air. He will just bury all posts that don't agree with his in several pages of repetitive posts with no actual content every time anyway. A waste of effort to respond directly, just state your opposing view and move on, even though you know it'll be immediately buried in BS.
My thoughts exactly. It is a complete waste of time and breath. He just groundshifts, uses every logical fallacy in the book, claims black is white, ignores the point blank demonstrations that what he is saying is absolute nonsense, and carries on, burying reality in post after google cherry picked post. I was just about done when he recently started arguing (because the evidence is not just TOO strong) that Oceanis' utterly crap wood, plastic and glue rudder structures were NOT in fact good for ocean service, and were not INTENDED for such service, and that only "Voyage boats" were, at the same time denying he had argued for months against that very position last year, as it is exactly what we were saying to him all along. He flatly denied he had ever said any such thing. Honestly, this particular thread is so filled with straightforward chauvinism and bigotry as well, that I am completely over it. As to his nonsense about "one way drift" and the need for reversing winds… he appears not to realise that there are constantly opposing airstreams in any ocean, and it is just a matter of changing latitude to find and use them… He is on the ignore list and will never get another response from me, nor any more of my time, at all.

In fact I am beginning to tire of doling out, for absolutely nothing, and often in the face of walls of nonsense, quantities of my hard earned knowledge on this site, altogether. You are one of the best, though, and it is always a pleasure to read your posts. I don't suppose you will be in Newport in June?
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Old 06-04-2016, 01:18   #227
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Re: Ancient navigation

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-----Regarding sailing without instruments years ago a guy circumnavigated in a boat without any instrument, not even a compass. And that proves what? That is possible knowing winds and currents and with knowledge regarding stars and other reference points.
-----
And that is not navigating because ---?

It would seem that your perspective on this is such that anybody who completed a downwind circumnavigation did not actually navigate?
Or is it that any vessel without excellent windward ability is not capable of being navigated?

My definition of navigation is simpler: The ability to know where you are and the ability to get where you want to go.
It's a function of knowledge, not the boat's windward ability.
I can go places in a 4wd Jeep that I can't go in a sports car, but I read a map in either case.

By the way, I love your use of the word "circumNAVIGATED" in the above quote (emphasis mine).
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:50   #228
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Re: Ancient navigation

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And that is not navigating because ---?

It would seem that your perspective on this is such that anybody who completed a downwind circumnavigation did not actually navigate?
Or is it that any vessel without excellent windward ability is not capable of being navigated?

My definition of navigation is simpler: The ability to know where you are and the ability to get where you want to go.
It's a function of knowledge, not the boat's windward ability.
I can go places in a 4wd Jeep that I can't go in a sports car, but I read a map in either case.

By the way, I love your use of the word "circumNAVIGATED" in the above quote (emphasis mine).
I guess you misunderstood me. Of course it is navigation. The point is that for navigate you have to have knowledge. The guy that circumnavigated without instruments had only managed to do that because he knew the stars, the maps, the currents and the winds and have some way to estimate boat speed to make dead reckoning.

Navigation can be more or less precise with a bigger or less amount of knowledge with more or less precision instruments that allow you to now with more or less precision here you are.

Polynesians if they had not any knowledge could not have navigated not even between Island of an archipelago or between nearby archipelagos.

The precision and quality of the navigation is linked with the knowledge you have and the instruments that you can access to have more or less precise information regarding your position and your ability to work with them.
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Old 08-04-2016, 07:53   #229
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Re: Ancient navigation

Thank you.
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Old 19-04-2016, 16:44   #230
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Re: Ancient navigation

I discovered Tasmania last week.
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Old 19-04-2016, 17:02   #231
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pirate Re: Ancient navigation

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I discovered Tasmania last week.
Too late.. I planted the flag in 2012..
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Old 19-04-2016, 17:29   #232
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Re: Ancient navigation

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I discovered Tasmania last week.
Thursday? Or Friday?
'Cause I discovered it on Wednesday...

Well, then, Boaty beat me to it...
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Old 19-04-2016, 20:53   #233
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Re: Ancient navigation

Yeah but phil hsnt been there for some time so its mine now, cause I arrived 3 days before you, and I discovered it because I navigated using the Spirit of Tasmania (and my bike) and I did Targa Tasmania so I discovered large bits that Phil (Boaty) probably didnt see.
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Old 19-04-2016, 21:08   #234
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Re: Ancient navigation

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Yeah but phil hsnt been there for some time so its mine now, cause I arrived 3 days before you, and I discovered it because I navigated using the Spirit of Tasmania (and my bike) and I did Targa Tasmania so I discovered large bits that Phil (Boaty) probably didnt see.
Holdens were definitely not built for Tasmanian roads.

Was noticibly all Hodens were struggling with corners.
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