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Old 18-03-2018, 18:12   #46
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey View Post
Yes, I think Garmin missed a big opportunity to reach out to the boating community that contributed to AC and offer a few minor concessions to those who helped build the data in AC. It wouldn't have cost them much, and they could have generated some goodwill and trust and brand loyalty by doing that.
Well said!

Garmin builds good hardware and their user interfaces are pretty good. Too bad they seem to go out of their way to earn a reputation for disregarding their customers after the sale.
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Old 18-03-2018, 19:37   #47
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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Well said!

Garmin builds good hardware and their user interfaces are pretty good. Too bad they seem to go out of their way to earn a reputation for disregarding their customers after the sale.
Their customers have never been anything more than a lucrative cash cow to them. The more often they can get away with successfully picking their wallets and still have them coming back to get it hoovered all over again the more they will continue to treat them as such. Suckers deserve to get sucked.

Sounds like blaming the victim, but they keep coming waddling back like walking moneybags, so they must like it.
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Old 19-03-2018, 00:37   #48
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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Of course Garmin is within their rights to do this. And of course we all expected them to.

Just like a store can choose what to sell, and at what price. Absolutely no reason to get worked up over it!
They probably have had the lawyers check it out and make sure they can't be sued but this is a bit different.

The system is a small part of value. It's basically a simple GIS system with a front end to collect and disseminate data.

The value was the amount of data and age of the data. Compared to an old style printed cruising guide, they could cover far more sites and keep the data much more up to date.

That data was provided by users in exchange for access to data from other users with an allowance for reasonable profits in operating the system.

If they cut off access to the data to a large number of providers, they are violating the spirit and intent that caused the users to provide data. So ethically, they are in the wrong (I'm sure the fine print will cover them legally).

AC's big advantage were they were first to market so they had lots of users with lots of reviews. The more valuable it was, the more users they could draw further cementing their lead. Of course, if Garmin botches the transition, they won't have anyone providing new data and another vendor can steal their role as the primary review source.

Unless Garmin gets on the ball pretty quickly, just the perception could be enough to unseat them from that lead role.
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Old 19-03-2018, 00:54   #49
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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There seems to be multiple threads on this general topic. As Iíve said in the others, there exists an excellent alternative to AC for cruisers in the Great Lakes, Great Loop, NA east coast, Bahamas/Caribbean/Cuba area:

http://waterwayguide.com/

It is both a crowd-sourced and human vetted (old school) online database and tool. Users can send in their reports or info, but they also pay actual cruisers to cover specific areas. This ensures that stuff that gets posted has at least been examined by a human that knows something about the area.

Disclosure: I am one of these Cruising Editors.
I took a quick look and it looks pretty viable. I could get onto the map and see marinas without paying or setting up an account.

Only down side it it appears to be largely limited to the US east coast/Great Lakes/Caribean, which isn't a huge drawback as AC tended to have fewer reviews outside those areas anyway.

Any idea how many crowd sourced reviews it has compared to AC? Several of the sites only had basic info with no user reviews.
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Old 19-03-2018, 01:46   #50
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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Any idea how many crowd sourced reviews it {Waterway Guide} has compared to AC? Several of the sites only had basic info with no user reviews.
Much much fewer. Comparing places I know well WWG is missing a lot of important POIs. I've been filling some in just as I continue to contribute to AC but WWG is not even in the same ball park as AC. It isn't close to complete enough to really be useful to me.
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Old 19-03-2018, 02:21   #51
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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Much much fewer. Comparing places I know well WWG is missing a lot of important POIs. I've been filling some in just as I continue to contribute to AC but WWG is not even in the same ball park as AC. It isn't close to complete enough to really be useful to me.
That's what I was afraid of.

The platform is the easy part. The challenge is collecting sufficient data to reach critical mass and become self supporting.
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Old 19-03-2018, 02:34   #52
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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That's what I was afraid of.

The platform is the easy part. The challenge is collecting sufficient data to reach critical mass and become self supporting.
Exactly. It's pretty hard for a guinea pig to displace an 800# gorilla.

I need the best possible information when I have to divert to a port unexpected. That means ActiveCaptain. I'm not going to risk the safety of my crew, my customer's boat, or incur additional costs for my customer by ignoring the best information.
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Old 19-03-2018, 02:48   #53
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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Much much fewer. Comparing places I know well WWG is missing a lot of important POIs. I've been filling some in just as I continue to contribute to AC but WWG is not even in the same ball park as AC. It isn't close to complete enough to really be useful to me.
But will individuals continue to supply AC with information now that a multinational company is running the show? or has Garmin cooked the golden egg?

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Old 19-03-2018, 02:59   #54
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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But will individuals continue to supply AC with information now that a multinational company is running the show? or has Garmin cooked the golden egg?
I don't know. Neither does anyone else. We'll see.

I for one will continue to contribute. I get great value from the existing data and contributing more is my way of paying forward. I have 1433 reviews as of this morning and a bit of backlog to fill in from my notes.
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Old 19-03-2018, 03:16   #55
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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But will individuals continue to supply AC with information now that a multinational company is running the show? or has Garmin cooked the golden egg?

Pete
I have no issue with it being a multinational company. That doesn't intrinsically make it evil.

The issue is do the terms (written or implied) change with the new ownership (multinational or mom&pop) and make it unpalatable to continue to support the platform.
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Old 19-03-2018, 04:06   #56
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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That doesn't intrinsically make it evil.
Oh it does, I've watched Star Wars :-)
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Old 19-03-2018, 06:34   #57
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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Oh it does, I've watched Star Wars :-)
Seemed like a stable and orderly place under the emperor.

Those darn rebels couldn't seem to run anything and others keep having to step in and take charge.

Sorry, thread drift.
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Old 20-03-2018, 08:33   #58
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

Hmm, I see what you mean. After all who wants to live in a mud hut in the desert when you can live it up on a death star and walk around with your own ipad.

Perhaps I should buy more Garmin.
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Old 02-09-2018, 19:22   #59
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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Their customers have never been anything more than a lucrative cash cow to them. The more often they can get away with successfully picking their wallets and still have them coming back to get it hoovered all over again the more they will continue to treat them as such. Suckers deserve to get sucked.

Sounds like blaming the victim, but they keep coming waddling back like walking moneybags, so they must like it.
It takes a while. My last four electronic navigation purchases were Garmin. My fifth won’t be. They have lost my trust, and with it, my business.
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Old 02-09-2018, 23:38   #60
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Re: ActiveCaptain discontinued?

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Another "Active Captain" will likely come along...
If people are looking for an alternative. Give zuluwaterways.com a try. It's getting more populated in the US and there is already a lot of information in Australia and SE Asia (not much in Europe).

It's still got a way to come in the US but boaters are starting to put in the work to populate it. Also, it's run by a sailing family rather than big business.




Disclaimer: I am associated with Zulu Waterways. It's development and operation.
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