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Old 06-12-2013, 10:32   #46
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pirate Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
If you took the time to do a little research before suggesting that Boatie is a phony... well, you would probably not have said the above.

FYI, Phil is a delivery skipper and does have "tons of experience", is known to several CF regulars, and is, well, outspoken and a bit weird! I for one respect his opinions, except, of course, when he disagrees with me!

Cheers,

Jim
LOLOL...
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:39   #47
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

I haven't belittled anyone. I've stated my opinions about how I would hope someone wouldn't gouge a price out of an owner that lost their boat and I even stated that I hoped that I wouldn't do the same. Having never been in that situation there is no way I could say what I'd do. If you perceived that as belittling then I apologize.

However as far as what I said about boatman I was pointing out how his comment about how "most people just don't know" had a sense of arrogance to it. and I can tell you that I also did not resort to name calling (i.e. baby sailors) that alone shows me what kind of character he is.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:49   #48
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
If you took the time to do a little research before suggesting that Boatie is a phony... well, you would probably not have said the above.

FYI, Phil is a delivery skipper and does have "tons of experience", is known to several CF regulars, and is, well, outspoken and a bit weird! I for one respect his opinions, except, of course, when he disagrees with me!

Cheers,

Jim
Don't forget "budgie smuggler" in that expert experience category...
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:56   #49
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pirate Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
I haven't belittled anyone. I've stated my opinions about how I would hope someone wouldn't gouge a price out of an owner that lost their boat and I even stated that I hoped that I wouldn't do the same. Having never been in that situation there is no way I could say what I'd do. If you perceived that as belittling then I apologize.

However as far as what I said about boatman I was pointing out how his comment about how "most people just don't know" had a sense of arrogance to it. and I can tell you that I also did not resort to name calling (i.e. baby sailors) that alone shows me what kind of character he is.
Yup... I'm a total ******* who spends all his time on a laptop... but do object to people pointing this out... kinda makes me feel small.
As to gouging folk over an abandoned boat.. its not happened yet but being as I make my living on the sea... not purely recreational.. Yes.. I'd want a bob or two for my efforts...
If a guy can ask $100 for a 700 metre dinghy ride to show me a friends boat that he's being paid to mind.. and I'm a prospective buyer... 10-15% of a boats value that I salvage... which would have otherwise have been a write off is reasonable...
It would be for a boat of mine.. but then I value my boats..
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:03   #50
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

10% of that boats value....? $2k? sounds fair to me... how much of that would the lawyers take?
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:12   #51
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pirate Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

Lawyers only come into play for Oysters and Swans... and maybe a big HR...
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:37   #52
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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So... if I'm doing a solo crossing and I come across that Oyster that was abandoned... get it functional and tie my lil boat behind and continue to Europe I'd be expected to contact the owner and say 'here's your boat mate'... and walk away.
Different deal.... as you said immediately above you would be dealing with the underwriters.

So single handed you would salvage a yacht in mid Atlantic and tow her thousands of miles to a safe haven ..... cor .. I'm impressed....

Take care that no one tries to help you berth her at the far end or they will be wanting a slice of the pie as well....
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:44   #53
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
10% of that boats value....? $2k? sounds fair to me... how much of that would the lawyers take?
If a client walked in and offered me this case I would recommend another lawyer (someone I didn't like).

Assuming there is insurance involved, most insurance companies would prefer to sign the title of the boat over to the salvor. A high order salvage, like a long tow at sea, is going to be a pretty big dollar figure and it isn't worth their time and expense of owning the boat to try and recoup the money. For a $20,000 boat I would be shocked if the insurance company didn't make the offer as soon as you called to tell them you found their property.

Think of it this way, for the insurance company the vessel is nothing but a money drain. They will never sail it, never enjoy it, but since they paid for it from the owner they are now responsible for it. The salvage fee first of all, but also the dockage (and marinas tend to put insurance companies boats in expensive slips), maintenance, a delivery captain to move it where it will sell, insurance, brokers fees, admin costs. And most of the time boats left at sea are heavily damaged, so they sell for a discount and slowly.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:55   #54
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pirate Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Different deal.... as you said immediately above you would be dealing with the underwriters.

So single handed you would salvage a yacht in mid Atlantic and tow her thousands of miles to a safe haven ..... cor .. I'm impressed....

Take care that no one tries to help you berth her at the far end or they will be wanting a slice of the pie as well....
You should only be impressed if I succeeded in the above scenario...
However you can be sure if the opportunity presented its self I'd give it a damn good try...
Before...
well its all BS and Braggadicio...
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:05   #55
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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If I were the owner who abandoned the boat, I would not expect others to compensate me for that decision.
Instead, I would be thankful to be alive,
Grateful to those who saved me and incurred costs in taking me to a safe haven.
If anyone has a claim to be compensated for any salvage benefit it would be my saviors before myself.
You cant have it both ways
Yup. When you leave a boat like that, you leave the boat.

People should think a lot more than twice before they hop off a boat.
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Old 06-12-2013, 15:16   #56
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Hola Jim,

the OP sez 'The boat was 400 miles N of Puerto Rico when abandoned. '....

I think the boat came to the salvors... they didn't go to it....

If I was the salvor a slab of beer would work for me...
Salud,
Frank
The boat was picked up on the eastern side of Anegada Island in the BVIs. The boat was abandoned about 400 miles north of Puerto Rico. Story and pic here: Coast Guard combines efforts with international vessels to rescue Canadian man 400 miles offshore | Coast Guard News
I'm not sure how long the tow was. I first heard them on the radio when they rounded the N tip of Anegada about 7am. It took them 3 hours to get from there to the anchorage. The single fisherman on the boat immediately left and headed back out to the fishing grounds E of Anegada.
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Old 06-12-2013, 17:58   #57
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Lawyers only come into play for Oysters and Swans... and maybe a big HR...
Well that got me salivating. I just had some visions about how I could singlehand my big new oyster or HR back along with mine.

Sailing two boats by myself, while farfetched, is very compeling to my imagination tonight

Imagining setting a sea anchor on mine, then trim the sails on the big HR and set the windvane, ahem, I mean hydraulic auto, then dink back to my rig, and try to keep up. Would be like chasing an Arabian with a Burro, so I'd have to hobble my new Arabian.

Just haven't figured out how to keep watch on two....

Nevermind that I could prolly tow mine back with theirs if it was tastefully abandoned, with working/fixable powerplant.

I'd give it hell to try and get it home. back to reality here, my hands are full and content with what I have.
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Old 06-12-2013, 18:12   #58
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pirate Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Well that got me salivating. I just had some visions about how I could singlehand my big new oyster or HR back along with mine.

Sailing two boats by myself, while farfetched, is very compeling to my imagination tonight

Imagining setting a sea anchor on mine, then trim the sails on the big HR and set the windvane, ahem, I mean hydraulic auto, then dink back to my rig, and try to keep up. Would be like chasing an Arabian with a Burro, so I'd have to hobble my new Arabian.

Just haven't figured out how to keep watch on two....

Nevermind that I could prolly tow mine back with theirs if it was tastefully abandoned, with working/fixable powerplant.

I'd give it hell to try and get it home. back to reality here, my hands are full and content with what I have.
LOL... well my last 2 boats were 22 &21ft so with a big ole oyster it'd be like towing a dinghy...
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Old 07-12-2013, 19:44   #59
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

In this case it appears that the owner of the boat was evacuated due to health issues, something none of us can discount when going to sea. If you take into account the possibility of a scenario like this then at some point you've weighed the options and made your decision, whether to carry insurance which would cover this situation or not. It's a personal decision based on economics, if you choose not to then you take the roll of the dice and hope for the best. If you did, why should you make a decision of such importance hoping you'll be bailed out by someone else's goodwill?
We are all personally responsible for our own decisions, make yours and live with the consequences, anything can happen, how you plan for those eventualities is your own responsibility. Pasting the person who salvages your boat as the evil guy in the situation is just childish, it was the individuals decisions before ever stepping off that led to the eventual outcome.
Although my heart goes out to the skipper, I hope he planned accordingly and had coverage for this eventuality, if not he rolled the dice and lost, it was his decision.
The salvage laws are established and have been for many years, claiming ignorance is not an excuse, we should all take time to educate ourselves before we end up in the same situation.
I hope all works out well all around, but I do accept my personal responsibility for my own decisions and make no excuses for my own failures, I don't count on the kindness of strangers to pull my ass out of a hole I've created. That would be unfair to them.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:54   #60
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Lawyers only come into play for Oysters and Swans... and maybe a big HR...
Too true. Most production boats aren't worth the salvage, and the bow cleats would tear out of the deck if you tried to take them under tow in a seaway.

But how many people know to take a turn around the mast instead?
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